Unraveling the Mystery: The Composition of Quasars

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    Quasars
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the composition and nature of quasars, exploring their characteristics, historical observations, and the evolution of understanding in astronomy. Participants delve into the elements that make up quasars, their initial classification, and the implications of redshift in their study.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that quasars are composed mostly of hydrogen and helium, reflecting the conditions of the early universe.
  • There is a historical perspective shared regarding the initial classification of quasars as stars, with some participants questioning the accuracy of this claim.
  • One participant argues that quasars appeared pointlike in optical telescopes, leading to confusion with faint stars, until redshift observations clarified their true nature.
  • Another participant references historical accounts and literature, suggesting discrepancies in the timeline of quasar discovery and classification.
  • A later reply emphasizes the significance of redshift as a primary tool for understanding distant quasars, while acknowledging its limitations and the reliance on observational evidence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the historical classification of quasars and the accuracy of certain claims regarding their composition and discovery. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in historical knowledge and the evolution of astronomical understanding over time, indicating that assumptions may vary based on the context of the discussion.

oliviaawheeler
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So what exactly are quasars made up of?
 
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Perhaps I can add.
Quasar, quasy stellar. It's from Latin. Thnigs like stars but not stars.
At first the astronomers thought they were stars, but further observations showed that they were not stars.
 
Mostly hydrogen with some helium thrown in. Quasars existed in a time where heavier elements hadn't yet been produced in large numbers.
 
Stephanus said:
At first the astronomers thought they were stars

I doubt very much that this is true.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
I doubt very much that this is true.

It's true. Unlike distant galaxies, quasars appear pointlike in optical telescopes, so just looking at their visible appearance they are indistinguishable from very faint stars. These visible "stars" were apparently correlated with strong radio sources, but it was hard to be sure that the very faint visible "stars" were the same objects as the radio sources. It was only when astronomers realized that the spectra of these objects were highly redshifted that they became convinced they were something very different.

A good reference on the history is here:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1304.3627.pdf
 
Interesting - Sandage's recollections/memoirs do not mention this at all. It's always "point like" or "quasi stellar", even before 1963 when the redshift was determined.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Stephanus said:
At first the astronomers thought they were stars, but further observations showed that they were not stars.
I doubt very much that this is true.
Actually I read that phrase from this
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006AY1WC/?tag=pfamazon01-20
In mid 1980, when I was in junior high.
The Universe David Bergamini.png

I didn't know that the book was printed in 1962. I just know today. I don't know how much knowledge in astronomy has changed since 1980s, much less in 2016.

But there's a very interesting phrase from this
PeterDonis said:
A good reference on the history is here:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1304.3627.pdf
The discovery of quasars in 1963, and more generally, active galactic nuclei (AGN), revolutionized extragalactic astronomy. In early February 1963, Maarten Schmidt (b. 1929; Figure 1) ...

The book was printed in 1962.
The discovery of quasar is in 1963.
Either
- It's a second edition that I read
- The discovery of quasar not in 1963.
- My memory tricks me into thinking that I read that phrase from David Bergamini's book.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Redshift is largely the only yardstick we have for the distant universe. While it has served us well and made many confirmed predictions that does not 'prove' it is invincible. But, without it we are lost in illusions of reality. We must either place faith in observational evidence or our ancient religious beliefs. I believe the former offers us a better future.
 

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