What are the 'closed geodesic' ?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of 'closed geodesics' in the context of differential geometry, particularly as it relates to the Selberg Trace formula. Participants explore the definitions, implications, and examples of closed geodesics on various surfaces, including toruses, cylinders, and spheres.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the meaning of 'closed geodesic' and its relation to the length of geodesics on a torus.
  • Another participant explains that a closed geodesic is one that meets itself, suggesting that if the tangent angle to one axis is a rational multiple of the ratio of the axes, it will close upon itself.
  • A participant questions the proportionality of the length of the geodesic to the number of turns it makes through the hole of the torus.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of intersection points for closed geodesics, with one participant humorously noting that they intersect themselves infinitely.
  • A participant introduces the Selberg Trace formula, indicating its connection to the lengths of closed geodesics, but does not provide a proof accessible to non-mathematicians.
  • Examples of closed geodesics on different surfaces are provided, such as circles on a cylinder and great circles on a sphere.
  • One participant notes that the discussion has not yet addressed closed geodesics on a torus specifically.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definition of closed geodesics and provide examples, but there is no consensus on the implications of these definitions, particularly regarding the torus and the Selberg Trace formula. The discussion remains unresolved on several points, including the nature of proofs related to the Selberg Trace.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the mathematical details and proofs related to the Selberg Trace formula and closed geodesics, indicating a need for further exploration of these concepts.

mhill
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i have been reading about 'Selberg Trace formula'

i know what a Laplacian is but i do not know what is the author referring to when he talks about 'Closed Geodesic' i know what the Geodesic of a surface is

l(\gamma)=\int_\gamma \sqrt{ g(\dot\gamma(t),\dot\gamma(t)) }\,dt\ ,

but i do not know what means 'closed' or why the geodesic of a torus would have the length (?) l_n =na a=radius ??
 
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mhill said:
i know what a Laplacian is but i do not know what is the author referring to when he talks about 'Closed Geodesic' i know what the Geodesic of a surface is

l(\gamma)=\int_\gamma \sqrt{ g(\dot\gamma(t),\dot\gamma(t)) }\,dt\ ,

but i do not know what means 'closed' or why the geodesic of a torus would have the length (?) l_n =na a=radius ??

Hi mhill! :smile:

"closed" simply means that the geodesic meets itself, so it has a finite length.

If the tangent of the angle to one axis is a rational multiple of the ratio of the axes, then it will meet itself. If irrational, it will go on for ever. :smile:

n is the number of turns "through the hole" before the geodesic joins up. The more turns, the longer the geodesic (though I must admit, I don't see why it's proportional :redface:).
 
thanks tiny-tim, then you mean that a geodesic will be closed if for example x(a)=x(b) , so there is a point where the geodesic intersect itself.

and for the 'Selberg Trace' is there a pedestrian proof or a proof that a profane non-mathematician could understand ??
 
mhill said:
thanks tiny-tim, then you mean that a geodesic will be closed if for example x(a)=x(b) , so there is a point where the geodesic intersect itself.

Hi mhill! :smile:

"a point" is rather an understatement … it intersects itself everywhere, an infinite number of times. :wink:
and for the 'Selberg Trace' is there a pedestrian proof or a proof that a profane non-mathematician could understand ??

Sorry … I've no idea what a Selberg trace is. :redface:
 
For a cylinder the closed geodesics are the circles perpendicular to the axis of the cylinder.

For a sphere the closed geodesics are the great circles.
 
torus

HallsofIvy said:
For a cylinder the closed geodesics are the circles perpendicular to the axis of the cylinder.

For a sphere the closed geodesics are the great circles.
Hi HallsofIvy! :smile:

You missed the torus :wink::
mhill said:
i have been reading about 'Selberg Trace formula'

but i do not know what means 'closed' or why the geodesic of a torus would have the length (?) l_n =na a=radius ??
 

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