What Are the Energy Differences in Compressing a Spring by Hand vs Using a Clip?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the energy differences involved in compressing a spring by hand versus using a clip to hold it compressed. It touches on the energy processes related to human muscle function and the mechanics of static objects like springs.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the energy expenditure involved in compressing a spring by hand compared to using a clip, pondering whether the clip experiences any form of energy loss.
  • Another participant suggests that the question should be framed in terms of energy processes, asking what happens to the energy when a clip is used versus when a human holds the spring.
  • A participant notes that human muscles utilize chemical processes to generate forces, even when static, while static objects do not have similar energy processes.
  • It is proposed that muscle fibers operate at a microscopic level, cycling through forces which may not contribute to the overall force exerted on the supported object, indicating a potential inefficiency.
  • One participant emphasizes that holding an object still involves dynamic processes, which may need to be articulated in a way that aligns with academic expectations regarding energy types.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of energy expenditure in human muscles versus static objects, and there is no consensus on how to best articulate the energy processes involved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of energy processes in biological systems compared to mechanical systems, but does not resolve the specific energy dynamics involved in each scenario.

gianeshwar
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1.Keeping a spring compressed for 1 hour by fixing clip.
2. Keeping the similar spring compressed for 1 hour by holding in our hands.

What difference is there in the two processes?
(Man gets tired means energy is spent. Does clip get tired? How?
 
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Welcome to PF.
You have to think of these sortf of questions in terms of energy processes rather than using common-everyday terms. i.e. in the man, how does the energy get spent? What sort of energy?

In terms of energy
- what happens when someone puts a clip on a spring?
- what happens in the human body when someone holds the spring closed?

... think your way through the entire process - you start with an uncompressed spring, compressing it stores energy in the spring: where did that energy come from?
Does it use energy to keep the spring compressed to the same amount?
 
This was my first question on the forum .I am really excited to have a quick response.Thank you very much Sir.I have still some doubts left related to this question.Will ask these soon.
It seems a wonderful forum.
 
Human muscles utilize chemical processes to generate forces even when not in motion. Static objects like springs and tables do not.
 
russ_watters said:
Human muscles utilize chemical processes to generate forces even when not in motion. Static objects like springs and tables do not.

I think it is more accurate to say that there is, in fact, movement within muscles. This is at a microscopic level as muscle fibres take over from one another. It still involves forces times distances which do not contribute to a Force times Distance on the thing you are supporting. Nothing more than a zero efficiency machine.
You could imagine supporting a mass on a large number of rubber bands and constantly stretching some and relaxing others. The constant cycling process would involve energy loss (hysteresis) in each band but the net upward force could be arranged to be constant.
 
Then, of course, you cannot hold your hands completely still ... for a variety of reasons.

Russ and SophieCentaur are providing examples of what I was talking about.
When we are saying is that when you hold something "still" with your body, you are using a dynamic process to do that, which averages out to that stillness.

It probably needs to be worded in a way that is appropriate to your course though.
Usually they want something about what sort of energy - kinetic vs potential - what sort of potential etc.
You'll probably have examples involving biological processes in your course.
 

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