What Causes the Attraction and Repulsion of Current-Carrying Wires?

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    Magnetism Relativity
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the mechanisms behind the attraction and repulsion of current-carrying wires, exploring concepts such as electron movement, Coulomb forces, and relativistic effects. Participants are attempting to clarify their understanding of the underlying physics involved in these interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Bob suggests that the speed of electrons and Coulomb attraction account for the attraction and repulsion of wires carrying current, but he struggles to visualize this concept in the laboratory frame of reference.
  • Bob proposes that in his frame of reference, moving electrons would lead to a net negative charge in both wires, resulting in repulsion, regardless of current direction.
  • Another participant points out that for beams of equal-charge particles moving in the same direction, the Coulomb forces repel while the Lorentz force attracts, indicating that these forces balance at relativistic speeds.
  • This participant also asserts that for currents in wires, there is no Coulomb force involved.
  • A later reply questions Bob's understanding of electron drift velocity, suggesting that it is much slower than the speed of electromagnetic waves in free space.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of Coulomb forces in the interactions between current-carrying wires, with some asserting that these forces do not apply in this context. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct interpretation of these forces and their implications.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made about the behavior of electrons and the forces at play, particularly concerning the frame of reference and the nature of the forces involved in current-carrying wires.

Wannabeagenius
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Hi All,

I understand that the the speed of electrons in a wire along with the coulomb attraction accounts for the attraction of two wires carrying current in the same direction and the repulsion of two wires carrying current in the opposite direction; however, I'm having trouble visualizing this.

If I am in the laboratory frame of reference, the electrons are moving with respect to me and the atoms with their positive charges are still. Now the electrons will shrink in size and be compressed into a smaller length giving the wire a net negative charge per unit length. Since both wires are carrying the same current and behave the same relative to me, both wires will have a net negative charge and both will repel each other. This is obviously independent of which direction the currents are going.

Now this is obviously wrong but I don't know why! Please tell me.

Thank you,
Bob
 
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For two beams of equal-charge particles (electrons) moving in the same direction, the Coulomb forces between the two beams repels the particles in the other beam. The Lorentz v x B force between the two beams attract. These two opposing forces are equal at very relativistic velocities. For currents in wires, there is no Coulomb force.

Bob S
 
I understand that the the speed of electrons

You're aware the "drift velocity" of electrons pretty slow, right?? nothing like an electromagnetic wave in free space...

try "electron mobility" and/or "electron drift velocity" in wikipedia for some understandable discussion.
 

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