What causes wavefunction collapse?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of wavefunction collapse in quantum mechanics, particularly focusing on what constitutes an "interaction" and how it relates to measurement. Participants explore various interpretations of quantum mechanics, the nature of wavefunctions, and the implications of these ideas on understanding particle behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the meaning of "interaction" in the context of wavefunction collapse, suggesting that probability clouds of particles intersect but remain uncertain until a measurement occurs.
  • Another participant references Roger Penrose's ideas, proposing that wavefunction collapse may be related to gravity and that a complete theory must integrate quantum mechanics with general relativity.
  • A participant raises the idea that both the outcome of the collapse and the act of collapse itself may be random, reflecting uncertainty in quantum mechanics.
  • One contribution discusses the quantum measurement problem, noting that there are many differing ideas with no consensus among scientists about the nature of wavefunction collapse.
  • Several interpretations are presented, including the Many Worlds interpretation, which posits that all probabilities are realized in parallel universes, and the decoherence theory, which suggests that interactions with the environment influence the appearance of classical behavior without actual collapse.
  • Another participant clarifies that not every interaction leads to a measurement or collapse, emphasizing that a measurement requires a classical apparatus to interact with the quantum system.
  • There is a contention regarding the relationship between interaction and measurement, with some asserting they are synonymous while others argue they are distinct concepts in the Copenhagen interpretation.
  • An example is provided of a spin-1/2 particle in a magnetic field, illustrating that precession occurs without wavefunction collapse unless a measurement is made.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of wavefunction collapse, measurement, and interaction, with no consensus reached on these interpretations. The discussion reflects ongoing debates within the physics community regarding these fundamental concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of the quantum measurement problem and the limitations of current interpretations, noting that many questions remain unresolved and that definitions of terms like "interaction" and "measurement" can vary significantly.

  • #31
K^2 said:
The cat is an observer, yet from perspective of outside observer, it does not collapse the wave function of the radioactive atom. It merely goes into an entangled superposition state with it.
That is provided the cat is perfectly isolated from the outside environment, which is not usually the case and which would be extremely hard/impossible to achieve for macroscopic objects of reasonable size.
Penrose makes an argument that any macroscopic object in superposition would necesserily interact with other objects through gravity. And we don't have http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_First_Men_in_the_Moon" to make the box out of.
 
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  • #32
Delta Kilo, the argument that there is no way to isolate the system is not particularly appealing, since we can always improve the isolation and reduce time scales.

But my point is that there is no conflict in this. We can't compare the views of the cat and the views of the outside observer and think they don't match. The merging of two views, requires them to be communicated to the same observer sort of like we need to parallelltransport vectors from one tangent space to another one before we can even define the concept of angles.
That's fine, but again, you are looking at collapse as a matter-of-perspective thing, and that's basically MWI.
 
  • #33
K^2: What I meant was that "realism" as discussed in EPR is, to my understanding, defined as predictability without measurement, (or at least without precise, definitive measurement).

It's my understanding that this is why Einstein was never much of a fan of QM in the first place, because he felt it pointed to an inherent unrealism of our universe.

But if I am misinformed, please correct me. That's why I'm here. :)
 
  • #34
JordanL said:
K^2: What I meant was that "realism" as discussed in EPR is, to my understanding, defined as predictability without measurement, (or at least without precise, definitive measurement).

The EPR elements of reality, yes that is as good a definition as you can get. If you can predict, without disturbing the system, the outcome of a measurement, then there should be a physical element of reality associated with the observable. A lot of people prefer other definitions, for reasons that elude me. Kinda like slicing hairs to me. But the EPR definition is strong enough to have survived anyway.
 

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