What counts as an observation in QM?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of "observation" in quantum mechanics (QM), exploring its definitions, implications, and the philosophical questions it raises. Participants examine the vagueness of the fundamental postulates of QM and how observations might be interpreted in various contexts, including theoretical and conceptual frameworks.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the completeness and clarity of the fundamental postulates of QM, suggesting that being in the presence of a charged particle could be considered an observation, which leads to implications about interactions between particles.
  • Another participant challenges the idea of observation as being physically sound, arguing that deductions can be made without direct measurements, which could impose limitations on the accuracy of momentum measurements.
  • A different participant introduces the concept of decoherence, suggesting that observation can be more clearly defined in the context of non-isolated systems exchanging information with their environment.
  • Another participant references Carlo Rovelli's Relational Quantum Mechanics as a relevant exploration of the concept of observation in QM.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on what constitutes an observation in QM, with no consensus reached on a singular definition or understanding. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of definitions and the context in which observations are considered, particularly regarding isolated versus non-isolated systems and the implications of decoherence.

HomogenousCow
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Hi I was day dreaming the other day when I realized how incomplete and vague the fundamental postulates of QM are, I mean what counts as an observation?
For example simply being in the presence of a charged particle can be an observation, since (using a point particle for the sake of argument) then I can feel the electric force and deduce how far the particle is from me and which direction it must be in.
If this were to be a proper observation, then by that logic every electron and proton observes every other one.
Another problem I have is that the notion of an observation is not a very physically sound one, I can deduce many things without directly measuring them, for example I can deduce that everybody who will reply to this thread is on earth, however I did not go ahead and measure that. With this I can go ahead and put limitations on how accurately your momentums can be measured.
 
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Why post links to articles that cannot be read online for free ? and the title does not sound like a consensual position.

The concept of observation in QM indeed first appears as fuzzy and undefined. But it is only so as long as you keep applying the equations to a small isolated system. In fact it turns out to be quasi-unambiguously "defined" as a macroscopic limit of the properties of a non-isolated system exchanging a large quantity of information (entropy) with the outside. This is the process called decoherence.

In my introduction to quantum physics I describe the mathematical structure of quantum states and measurements in a simple way I did not find so clearly expressed elsewhere, while staying rigorously equivalent to the established things (density matrix).
 

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