What Defines the Fabric of Time in Space?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of space and its relationship to time, exploring whether space can be considered a fabric of time and how this concept influences our understanding of the past, present, and future. Participants delve into theoretical frameworks, including relativity and quantum mechanics, while examining the implications of these ideas on the definition of space.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that space and time are intertwined as a four-dimensional manifold, as described by Minkowski, where time can be viewed as a dimension that varies with the observer's frame of reference.
  • Others propose that the observable universe is a Minkowski manifold influenced by mass and energy, introducing the concept of the "Absent," which relates to quantum processes and virtual particles.
  • A participant questions the nature of the "Absent" forces, wondering if they represent a probable future and whether time moves along a path of least resistance.
  • Another viewpoint likens space to a board for a game, serving as a reference point for reality's elements.
  • Some argue that space cannot be considered a physical entity, suggesting it is more akin to a vacuum with properties influenced by matter-energy interactions.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the ability to define space, viewing it as an abstract mathematical construct rather than a concrete entity.
  • Another contribution emphasizes the idea that if space is where information is arranged, then time is where that information is rearranged, proposing an informatic perspective of the universe.
  • There is a discussion about the philosophical implications of space and time, with references to historical figures like Goethe and Newton, and how these perspectives shape current understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of space and time, with multiple competing views and interpretations presented throughout the discussion. The complexity of the topic leads to uncertainty and varying opinions on whether space can be defined as a fabric or if it exists in a different conceptual framework.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the abstract nature of the discussion, reliance on various theoretical frameworks, and the absence of definitive conclusions regarding the properties and definitions of space and time.

  • #31
36grit said:
What is space? it's got to be the biggest thing in the universe. I'd even go so far as to say it defines our universe from (if there are any) other universes.
but what is it?
Is it literally a fabric of time? If so then how and/or what defines the past, present, and future physically?
Are there space specialists? What would you call someone who specializes in the study of the space time fabric?


Space. the distance between one point and another.
also known as, the dream, game board we play our reality on.
 
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  • #32
Fredrik said:
It's a big ball of wibbly wo...no wait, that's time. :confused:

wibbly wobbly, timey wimey... :biggrin:
 
  • #33
harrylin said:
Einstein concluded that space determines the metrical relations in the space-time continuum under influence of nearby matter - thus in his view, the gravitational potential and force relations are not space, but they describe the state of that space. That's the subtle difference between physics and math. ;-)

So your point is that if Einstein takes something for granted, that's enough to accept it as fact? If it wasn't, would you have any other basis for reasoning that such a thing as space/time exists beyond the interspursing of gravitational fields? If gravity takes place in space instead of itself constituting space, shouldn't there be some theoretical and/or empirical situation in which space is present and gravitation is not? What kind of situation would occur in space without the presence of gravitation?
 
  • #34
brainstorm said:
So your point is that if Einstein takes something for granted, that's enough to accept it as fact? If it wasn't, would you have any other basis for reasoning that such a thing as space/time exists beyond the interspursing of gravitational fields? If gravity takes place in space instead of itself constituting space, shouldn't there be some theoretical and/or empirical situation in which space is present and gravitation is not? What kind of situation would occur in space without the presence of gravitation?

No, why would you think that? Einstein had suggested the contrary for a while. That wasn't my point and thus I did not mention the arguments that made him finally change his mind. As I highlighted in bold, my point was the difference between the mathematical space concept and the concept of "the biggest thing" that the OP asked about. Anyway, the OP seems to have moved on.
 
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  • #35
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_fluid
best answer I've found so far. When looking at theories, I tend to judge based on two things: simplicity and explanatory power. I think that this theory has both, and gets rid of the two biggest issues I have with the current Standard Model of the universe: Dark Matter and Dark Energy.
 
  • #36
Naty1 said:
If you read books by Smolin, Thorne, Kaku, Susskind,Thorne, I don't think any would agree with Fredrick's (and others) earlier posts which he seems to be reconsidering.
Excuse me? You're suggesting that several of my posts in this thread have questionable content. I just made one claim that was too strong, in one post. My other posts were definitely good.

The comment was "science can't tell you what anything really is". I've had time to think about it, and I think the comment was definitely too strong, but there's more to it than that. A lot more. I might explain it in a much longer post later. I don't have the time right now.
 
  • #37
Fredrik said:
My claim that "science doesn't tell you what anything really is" may be too strong.

Yeah, you better believe that statement is too strong. That's why I like to call people on that when they make such defeatist statements. Your answer may be the best current answer, but that doesn't mean it isn't a lame answer still.
 
  • #38
I just made one claim that was too strong, in one post. My other posts were definitely good.

yes...that's all I was saying...and who knows, ultimately it may be proven it wasn't too strong...
 

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