What determines a vacuum tube's perveance?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the characteristics and mathematical modeling of vacuum tubes, particularly triodes, with a focus on the concept of perveance. Participants explore the equations governing triode behavior, the dependency of parameters like amplification factor and transconductance, and the challenges in finding reliable resources on vacuum tube electronics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the amplification factor and transconductance are constant characteristics of a vacuum tube, seeking clarification on their dependencies and calculation methods.
  • One participant suggests that there is no single best approximation equation for triodes, noting that their characteristics can change with age and operational conditions.
  • Another participant provides a formula for triode plate current, introducing the concept of perveance as a key factor in current flow, while discussing the influence of grid and plate voltages.
  • Some participants mention the importance of specific tube characteristics and recommend consulting various vintage texts and resources for more detailed information.
  • There is a discussion about the shape of triode current curves under different grid voltage conditions, with observations on the differences between positive and negative grid voltages.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the constancy of certain parameters and the best mathematical models for triode behavior. There is no consensus on a single best approximation or model, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the dependencies of the parameters involved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential variability of tube characteristics over time and the dependence of certain parameters on specific operating conditions. The discussion highlights the complexity of modeling triode behavior accurately.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in vacuum tube electronics, particularly those studying or working with triodes, may find this discussion relevant. It may also benefit those seeking historical perspectives on electronic components and their characteristics.

EinsteinKreuz
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So books on VT electronics are quite hard to come by these days and many electronics textbooks don't mention thermionic valves whatsoever. I managed to find a very good vintage book : Vacuum tube and semiconductor electronics(Millman, 1958).

It describes the triode plate current characteristic curve as defined by the equation:

I_{A} = g_{m} = \sqrt{V_{G} + \frac {V_{A}{\mu}^{3}Where μ is the amplification factor and gm is the transconductance.

But another book defines IA = f(VA,VG) and expands it into a taylor series. Now first question is: Are the amplification factor and transconductance constant characteristics of the tube and if not, what are the independent variables which they depend on and how can they be calculated?

Also, is the first equation an aproximation? Because in another book it shows the triode current curves plotted against anode voltage for both negative grid voltages and one for positive grid voltage and when the grid is positive the curve has an inverted parabolic shape whereas when VG < 0 the curves are almost linear.

So in a nutshell, what's the best fit mathematical model of the triode anode current if you know the grid voltage function VG(t) and the voltage applied to the anode?
 
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All VTs are different. There is no single best approximation equation. Triodes are very rarely operated at fixed anode voltage. The characteristics of a VT change as it ages.

If you post the tube number and the available curves of the triode you intend to use, we may be able to help you.

Why do you need the approximation? Will you model a circuit with spice or use it in a numerical model?
See the PSpice model; http://www.duncanamps.com/spicevalvesgt.html
google 'spice triode model'

Have you got a copy of “Radiotron Designers Handbook”. Langford Smith. 4'th Edn. 1952. There are .pdf copies available.

Take a look at the MIT Radiation Laboratory Series. Series index is V28. .pdf are available from; http://www.jlab.org/ir//MITSeries.html
 
EinsteinKreuz said:
So books on VT electronics are quite hard to come by these days and many electronics textbooks don't mention thermionic valves whatsoever. I managed to find a very good vintage book : https://www.amazon.com/dp/125832282X/?tag=pfamazon01-20

It describes the triode plate current characteristic curve as defined by the equation:

I_{A} = g_{m} = \sqrt{V_{G} + \frac {V_{A}{\mu}^{3}Where μ is the amplification factor and gm is the transconductance.

But another book defines IA = f(VA,VG) and expands it into a taylor series. Now first question is: Are the amplification factor and transconductance constant characteristics of the tube and if not, what are the independent variables which they depend on and how can they be calculated?

Also, is the first equation an aproximation? Because in another book it shows the triode current curves plotted against anode voltage for both negative grid voltages and one for positive grid voltage and when the grid is positive the curve has an inverted parabolic shape whereas when VG < 0 the curves are almost linear.

So in a nutshell, what's the best fit mathematical model of the triode anode current if you know the grid voltage function VG(t) and the voltage applied to the anode?
There are useful formulas in Radio Engineers' Handbook, by Terman, one of which I will try to write for you:-
Ip = k(Eg+Ep/mu)^3/2. In this formula, k is a constant called the perveance - the ability of the device to pass current. The plate voltage is divided by mu, the amplification factor, as its influence on current is less than the grid by this factor. The tube constants depend on the geometry and on the electrode voltages. mu tends to be rather constant as voltages are altered, but Gm does not. The manufacturer usually gives standard operating voltages.
If going from negative to positive grid, there is no sudden change in the curvature of the mutual characteristic, but grid current will flow, so the grid circuit must have low resistance. If the grid positive voltage approaches Ep, then it suddenly robs the plate of electrons, and the Ep/Ip characteristic then saturates, or flat tops.
 
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