What Does a Formal Proof in Physics Look Like?

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The discussion centers on the nature of proofs in physics compared to those in mathematics, questioning whether they hold equal strength. Participants highlight that while mathematical proofs can be definitive, physics relies heavily on experimental validation, which is often theory-laden and subject to revision. The inability to create formal proofs in physics akin to mathematical quantifiers is emphasized, as physical laws can be superseded by new theories. The conversation also touches on the interpretation of mathematical statements, with some arguing that not all can be framed as "if A then B" conditions. Ultimately, the distinction between the certainty of mathematical proofs and the provisional nature of physical theories is a key point of contention.
  • #31
"So the statement that: that all statements in mathematics are of the form "If A then B".
is wrong"

As HallsofIvy said, the statement you're making is on the "If A then B" form, do you actually think you're going any further with this?
 
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  • #32
HallsofIvy said:
Notice, by the way, that all statements in mathematics are of the form "If A then B". .


Here are the axioms of propositional calculus in mathematical logic:


......A----->( B------A)............1

......( A----->( B-----C))-------->(( A----->B)------>(A---->C))...2


where A , B , C are statements.


Do you still insist that all statements in mathematics are of the form " If A then B"??



.......yes or no..........
 
  • #33
Mathematics uses deductive logic, science uses inductive logic. Does this help?
 
  • #34
jimmysnyder said:
Mathematics uses deductive logic, science uses inductive logic. Does this help?

You mean for theorems proved in physics we use only inductive procedures and not the rules of inference?
 
  • #35
evagelos said:
is a proof in physics equal in strength with that in mathematics?

in mathematics we have at one end an ordinary proof and at the other end a formal proof.

how would aformal proof in physics look like,an example would help.

I suppose that the validity of a proof in physics could be checked by an experiment but in the case that we have no experiment what happens??

Thanks

Its a bit different in the case of physics. Theoretically outlining things is usually done mathematically...so either way, you're dealing with mathematical proofs...however, there is still the need of confirmation, which suggests an empirical source.
 
  • #36
evagelos said:
You mean for theorems proved in physics we use only inductive procedures and not the rules of inference?
When you prove theorems, you are doing mathematics. Mathematics in the service of physics is still mathematics.
 
  • #37
HallsofIvy said:
Notice, by the way, that all statements in mathematics are of the form "If A then B". .

evagelos said:
Here are the axioms of propositional calculus in mathematical logic:


......A----->( B------A)............1

......( A----->( B-----C))-------->(( A----->B)------>(A---->C))...2


where A , B , C are statements.


Do you still insist that all statements in mathematics are of the form " If A then B"??



.......yes or no..........


HallsofIvy i am still waiting for an answer,also for the formal proof that:nothing contains everything .


.....That is if you wish of course............
 

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