What Does a Formal Proof in Physics Look Like?

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SUMMARY

The forum discussion centers on the nature of formal proofs in physics compared to those in mathematics. Participants argue that while mathematics can provide definitive proofs through logical quantification, physics relies on experimental validation, which is inherently theory-laden and subject to revision. Key examples include Newton's second law (F=ma) and the concept of the empty set, illustrating the differences in proof structures. Ultimately, the discussion concludes that physics cannot achieve the same level of certainty as mathematics due to the potential for theories to be superseded.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Newton's laws of motion, specifically F=ma.
  • Familiarity with the concept of the empty set in set theory.
  • Knowledge of formal proof structures in mathematics.
  • Awareness of the theory-laden nature of experimental results in physics.
NEXT STEPS
  • Explore the implications of the theory-laden nature of experimental results in physics.
  • Study the differences between formal proofs in mathematics and physics.
  • Investigate the historical context of Newton's laws and their supersession by Einstein's theories.
  • Learn about the axiomatic foundations of set theory, particularly Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory with the Axiom of Choice (ZFC).
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Students and professionals in physics, mathematicians, and anyone interested in the philosophical implications of proof and validation in scientific theories.

  • #31
"So the statement that: that all statements in mathematics are of the form "If A then B".
is wrong"

As HallsofIvy said, the statement you're making is on the "If A then B" form, do you actually think you're going any further with this?
 
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  • #32
HallsofIvy said:
Notice, by the way, that all statements in mathematics are of the form "If A then B". .


Here are the axioms of propositional calculus in mathematical logic:


......A----->( B------A)............1

......( A----->( B-----C))-------->(( A----->B)------>(A---->C))...2


where A , B , C are statements.


Do you still insist that all statements in mathematics are of the form " If A then B"??



.......yes or no..........
 
  • #33
Mathematics uses deductive logic, science uses inductive logic. Does this help?
 
  • #34
jimmysnyder said:
Mathematics uses deductive logic, science uses inductive logic. Does this help?

You mean for theorems proved in physics we use only inductive procedures and not the rules of inference?
 
  • #35
evagelos said:
is a proof in physics equal in strength with that in mathematics?

in mathematics we have at one end an ordinary proof and at the other end a formal proof.

how would aformal proof in physics look like,an example would help.

I suppose that the validity of a proof in physics could be checked by an experiment but in the case that we have no experiment what happens??

Thanks

Its a bit different in the case of physics. Theoretically outlining things is usually done mathematically...so either way, you're dealing with mathematical proofs...however, there is still the need of confirmation, which suggests an empirical source.
 
  • #36
evagelos said:
You mean for theorems proved in physics we use only inductive procedures and not the rules of inference?
When you prove theorems, you are doing mathematics. Mathematics in the service of physics is still mathematics.
 
  • #37
HallsofIvy said:
Notice, by the way, that all statements in mathematics are of the form "If A then B". .

evagelos said:
Here are the axioms of propositional calculus in mathematical logic:


......A----->( B------A)............1

......( A----->( B-----C))-------->(( A----->B)------>(A---->C))...2


where A , B , C are statements.


Do you still insist that all statements in mathematics are of the form " If A then B"??



.......yes or no..........


HallsofIvy i am still waiting for an answer,also for the formal proof that:nothing contains everything .


.....That is if you wish of course............
 

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