What does Higgs partcle impart mass to?

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    Higgs Mass Matter
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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of mass as it relates to the Higgs boson and the Higgs field, exploring questions about what particles gain mass from the Higgs mechanism, the implications of massless particles, and the definitions of mass in different contexts. The conversation includes theoretical considerations and conceptual clarifications regarding mass, energy, and the behavior of elementary and composite particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether matter can inherently have mass without the Higgs boson, suggesting that mass may be a result of interaction with the Higgs field.
  • There is a discussion about the distinction between mass and energy, with some asserting that while mass can be seen as a type of energy, not all energy is mass.
  • Participants express confusion over the concept of massless particles, particularly photons, and their behavior in relation to the Higgs field.
  • Some argue that all massive elementary particles in the standard model gain mass through the Higgs mechanism, while others clarify that protons and neutrons, being composite particles, have a more complex mass origin.
  • There is a debate over the terminology used in physics, particularly regarding the meanings of mass and energy in different contexts, with some participants acknowledging the need for clarity in these definitions.
  • One participant raises the question of what gives the Higgs boson its mass, leading to a discussion about the nature of the Higgs potential.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of mass and its relationship to the Higgs field, with no consensus reached on several points, including the definitions of mass and the implications of massless particles. The discussion remains unresolved on these topics.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the definitions of mass and energy can vary based on context and convention, which may lead to confusion. The complexity of how composite particles like protons and neutrons obtain mass is acknowledged but not fully resolved.

ynon
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[Moderator's note: Thread moved to Quantum Physics since it is more appropriate there.]

O.K., I'm confused: According to How Stuff Works http://science.howstuffworks.com/higgs-boson1.htm

"Can't matter just inherently have mass without the Higgs boson confusing things? Not according to the standard model. But physicists have found a solution. What if all particles have no inherent mass, but instead gain mass by passing through a field? This field, known as a Higgs field, could affect different particles in different ways. Photons could slide through unaffected, while W and Z bosons would get bogged down with mass. In fact, assuming the Higgs boson exists, everything that has mass gets it by interacting with the all-powerful Higgs field, which occupies the entire universe. Like the other fields covered by the standard model, the Higgs one would need a carrier particle to affect other particles, and that particle is known as the Higgs boson." http://science.howstuffworks.com/higgs-boson1.htm

Mass = energy and if something has no mass or energy then that something is only hypothetical or a concept IMO. Has anything corporeal without mass ever been discovered? Photons don't exhist at rest unless I am mistake.If everything gets mass from Higgs, just what is the so called massless particle with no inherant mass before it gets mass. What does Higgs give mass to? What gives Higgs its mass. God? As in God particle.. The article mentioned that photons with no inherent mass pass through uneffected. Makes sense. I believe by inherent mass they mean intrinsic or rest mass. For that matter what is a photon with no mass at rest before it acquires mass of motion from going C. Help!
"The rest energy is the energy required to creat matter." Nigel Calder
 
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ynon said:
Mass = energy

This is where you go wrong. Mass may be seen as a type of energy, but all energy is not mass. Photons have both energy and momentum, but no mass.

You may find the following FAQs of interest:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/do-photons-have-mass.511175/
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/what-is-the-massenergy-equivalence.763067/
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/what-is-relativistic-mass-and-why-it-is-not-used-much.796527/

You can find these, and many more, in the sticky thread https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/relativity-faq-list.807523/ at the top of this forum.

ynon said:
Photons don't exhist at rest unless I am mistake.
Nothing massless can be at rest in an inertial frame. This is a direct consequence of special relativity.

ynon said:
What does Higgs give mass to?
All massive elementary particles in the standard model.
ynon said:
I believe by inherent mass they mean intrinsic or rest mass.
No, they do not, this is the kind of mass that is imparted by the Higgs field. Without the Higgs, all particles would be massless (well, as good as, there are other ways to break the symmetries involved, but that gets technical).

ynon said:
For that matter what is a photon with no mass at rest before it acquires mass of motion from going C
The photon does not acquire a mass.

ynon said:
What gives Higgs its mass. God? As in God particle..
No physicist with self respect would call it that. The Higgs mass is a consequence of the form of the Higgs potential.
 
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Orodruin: Thank you for the clarifications though it wasnt what I expected. What appeared to be contradictions that confused me were the fact that key words like mass and energy and relativistic mass have different meanings depending on context, convention and convenience. Photons have momentum but no mass.Made no sense to me but its more convenient and a physicist knows what a physicist means when these words are used in context of photons. Works for me now that I know. Mass and some other words may differ depending on convention, convenience, or semantics as long as it is used properly and does not have any impact on the predictions of special relativity.
"Mass may be seen as a type of energy, but all energy is not mass" and Calder says "Mass and energy are equivalent" there is no contradiction. The words mass and energy and maybe equivalent are in different contexts.. I accept this now but it takes getting used to,
I may have been unclear on my main question.I couldn't conceive of a massless proton or neutron before Higgs interaction.
All massive elementary particles in the standard model get their mass from Higgs I understood. A massless proton say, passes thorugh the Higgs field and obtains mass. So it is a massless proton before Higgs. Massless in this case is not the same as a planet being massless.Or a marble. Mass in a different context.
Thank you again.

Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/what-does-higgs-partcle-impart-mass-to.822501/Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/what-does-higgs-partcle-impart-mass-to.822501/Reference https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/what-is-relativistic-mass-and-why-it-is-not-used-much.796527/
 
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ynon said:
I couldn't conceive of a massless proton or neutron before Higgs interaction.
Protons and neutrons are not elementary particles. How they obtain their mass is slightly more complicating.
ynon said:
Massless in this case is not the same as a planet being massless.Or a marble. Mass in a different context.
On the contrary, it is very much he same (at least the marble, with a planet you start getting gravitational effects and if those are relevant you need to go to GR).
 
Nowadays mass is used only in the following sense: Mass is the energy of a particle in its rest frame, i.e. in an inertial system where its center of energy is at rest.
In the same way, spin is angular momentum of a particle in it's rest frame.
For a compound object, it is not difficult to imagine it having spin. I.e. the parts of a tennis ball are moving although its center is at rest.
The kinetic and potential energy of the moving parts making up a compound particle will also contribute to it's mass. That's why compound particles can gain mass by other mechanisms than the Higgs.
 

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