What does 'M symmetric' mean in the context of matrices?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the term "M symmetric" in the context of matrices, specifically in relation to a statement about matrix diagonalizability in \(\mathbb{R}^{2}\). Participants are exploring the meaning of this term and the implications of the matrices involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether "M symmetric" simply means that \(M_{1} = M_{1}^{T}\) or if it has a different meaning.
  • Another participant notes the ambiguity regarding the size of the matrices, suggesting that the reference to diagonalizability in \(\mathbb{R}^{2}\) implies they are likely \(2 \times 2\) matrices, but expresses uncertainty about the terminology used.
  • A participant shares their assumption that the matrices are \(2 \times 2\) and discusses the possibility of missing information from the original source, indicating confusion over the quoted statement.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of knowing the book from which the phrase was taken, suggesting that it could provide critical context.
  • Another participant speculates that "M symmetric" might refer to "Minkowski-symmetric," but acknowledges that this is unlikely unless the book pertains to relativistic physics. They also propose that the term could be a typographical error.
  • A detailed example of Minkowski-symmetric and anti-symmetric matrices is provided, illustrating the mathematical properties associated with these types of matrices.
  • Participants agree that further context from the book is necessary to provide meaningful assistance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty about the meaning of "M symmetric" and agree that additional context is needed to clarify the discussion. Multiple competing interpretations of the term are presented, and no consensus is reached.

Contextual Notes

There is a noted lack of information regarding the size of the matrices and the specific context of the quoted statement, which may affect the interpretation of "M symmetric." The discussion also highlights potential typographical errors in the original text.

AlphaNumeric2
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My dad came across this phrase in a book but neither of us are familiar with it. The statement is :

"Let [tex]M_{1}[/tex] and [tex]M_{2}[/tex] be matrices. [tex]N = M_{1}^{-1}M_{2}[/tex]. This matrix is [tex]M_{1}[/tex] symmetric and so it diagonalisable in [tex]\mathbb{R}^{2}[/tex]."

Does it just mean that [tex]M_{1}=M_{1}^{T}[/tex] or something else? Obviously searching for "Matrix, symmetric" doesn't help in this question...
 
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I think more context is needed. Consider you're never actually told what size the matrices are. It says diagonalizable in [tex]\mathbb{R}^{2}[/tex], so I would think they're 2x2, but usually you say diagonalizable over R or over C or over Q, etc. [tex]\mathbb{R}^{2}[/tex] isn't a standard field (and I'm not sure whether it's even possible to make it a field off the top of my head), so my first guess would be that you're missing something important
 
I assumed that the matrices are 2x2, so I guess that refers to them being diagonalisable as a Real matrix. Unfortunately I don't have access to this book, he asked me over the phone and what he said differed a few times from what he then emailed me. I assume he's quoting directly, but that might be incorrect too...

I'll ask him again and see if he's typed out something from memory or he copied it word for word. I agree, there does feel as if there's a vital bit of information missing.
 
What book?

AlphaNumeric2 said:
My dad came across this phrase in a book but neither of us are familiar with it...I'll ask him again and see if he's typed out something from memory or he copied it word for word.

Please make sure you make him tell you what book because I think this is vitally important information!

My first guess was M-symmetric stands for "Minkowski-symmetric", but if your dad's book has nothing to do with relativistic physics that is fairly unlikely. Another guess is that the (extraneous?) symbol is a printer's error, since (particularly in the context of elementary linear algebra) the sentence with that symbol deleted appears to make sense if all matrices are nxn real matrices and if [itex]N[/itex] is indeed symmetric.

If it helps, put [itex]L = \operatorname{diag} (-1,1,1, \dots 1)[/itex]; then the Minkowski adjoint can be taken to be [itex]A^{\ast} = L^{-1} \, A^T \, L[/itex] and then a Minkowski symmetric operator satisfies [itex]A^{\ast} = A[/itex]. For example in the 2x2 case a Minkowski-symmetric matrix would take the form
[tex] A = \left[ \begin{array}{cc} a & b \\ -b & d \end{array} \right][/tex]
while a Minkowski anti-symmetric matrix would take the form
[tex] A = \left[ \begin{array}{cc} 0 & b \\ b & 0 \end{array} \right][/tex]
which satisfies
[tex] \exp(A) = <br /> \left[ \begin{array}{cc} \cosh(b) & \sinh(b) \\ \sinh(b) & \cosh(b) \end{array} \right][/tex]
which can be compared with the analogous facts for the usual transpose.

I don't think we can offer any useful assistance until your dad supplies the missing context.
 
Last edited:

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