What does the linear independence formula state?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of linear independence, specifically focusing on the functions \( e^x \) and \( e^{2x} \). Participants explore the definition and implications of linear independence in the context of these functions, including the necessary conditions for constants in a linear combination to yield the zero function.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant requests a formula defining the linear independence of the functions \( e^x \) and \( e^{2x} \).
  • Another participant states that if \( e^x \) and \( e^{2x} \) are linearly independent, then the equation \( ae^x + be^{2x} = 0 \) must have the only solution \( a, b = 0 \).
  • A definition is provided, stating that for constants \( a \) and \( b \), if \( ae^x + be^{2x} = 0 \) for all \( x \), then \( a = b = 0 \).
  • Some participants discuss the equivalence of different formulations of the definition, questioning whether the phrasing "for all \( a, b, x \)" is appropriate.
  • There is a contention regarding the clarity of the definitions, with some participants suggesting that the phrasing could lead to confusion about the implications of the constants \( a \) and \( b \).
  • One participant proposes a more comprehensive formulation involving quantifiers, while others challenge the logic behind certain statements about the constants.
  • Another participant attempts to clarify the proof process for establishing that \( a \) and \( b \) must be zero, using differentiation and substitution.
  • Disagreement arises over the interpretation of the definitions and the necessity of proving the conditions for linear independence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of linear independence. There is no consensus on the best way to articulate the conditions or the necessity of proving the linear independence of the functions discussed.

Contextual Notes

Some statements made by participants are incomplete or lack clarity, particularly regarding the use of quantifiers and the implications of the definitions provided. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of the mathematical statements involved.

evagelos
Messages
314
Reaction score
0
CAN somebody, please write down a formula defining the linear independence of the following functions??

{[tex]e^x,e^{2x}[/tex]}
 
Physics news on Phys.org
If e^x and e^2x are linearly independent then the equation

ae^x+be^2x=0 must have the only solution a,b=0.

Differentiate to obtain,

ae^x+2be^2x=0

Subtract the first equation from the second to obtain,
be^2x=0
which is true if and only if b=0.
Then it is obvious that a=0.

Therefore, e^x and e^2x are linearly independent.
 
The definition says: if [tex]a,b[/tex] are constants and [tex]a e^x + b e^{2x} = 0[/tex] for all [tex]x[/tex], then [tex]a = b = 0[/tex].
 
g_edgar said:
The definition says: if [tex]a,b[/tex] are constants and [tex]a e^x + b e^{2x} = 0[/tex] for all [tex]x[/tex], then [tex]a = b = 0[/tex].

Would you say that your definition is equivalent to:

for all a,b,x and [tex]ae^x + be^{2x}=0[/tex] ,then a=b=0 ?

or in a more combact form:

for all a,b,x [tex][ae^x + be^{2x} =0\Longrightarrow ( a=b=0)][/tex]
 
evagelos said:
Would you say that your definition is equivalent to:

for all a,b,x and [tex]ae^x + be^{2x}=0[/tex] ,then a=b=0 ?

or in a more combact form:

for all a,b,x [tex][ae^x + be^{2x} =0\Longrightarrow ( a=b=0)][/tex]
"For all a, b" makes no sense if "a= b= 0".

Just "if, for all x, [tex]ae^x + be^{2x}=0[/tex] ,then a=b=0" or
"(for all x [tex]ae^x + be^{2x} =0)\Longrightarrow ( a=b=0)[/tex]"
 
HallsofIvy said:
"For all a, b" makes no sense if "a= b= 0".

Just "if, for all x, [tex]ae^x + be^{2x}=0[/tex] ,then a=b=0" or
"(for all x [tex]ae^x + be^{2x} =0)\Longrightarrow ( a=b=0)[/tex]"

You mean that a and ,b cannot have any other value apart from zero??

In that case you do not have to prove anything because ae^x + be^2x =0

OR given any a,b,x and if [tex]ae^x + be^{2x} =0[/tex] ,then you can prove that the only value a and b can take is zero??
 
HallsofIvy said:
[tex](\text{for all } x,\; ae^x + be^{2x} =0)\Longrightarrow ( a=b=0)[/tex]

Incomplete. How about this...

[tex]\text{for all } a,\; \text{for all } b\; [(\text{for all } x,\; ae^x + be^{2x} =0)\Longrightarrow ( a=b=0)][/tex]
 
evagelos said:
You mean that a and ,b cannot have any other value apart from zero??

In that case you do not have to prove anything because ae^x + be^2x =0

OR given any a,b,x and if [tex]ae^x + be^{2x} =0[/tex] ,then you can prove that the only value a and b can take is zero??
Given that [itex]ae^x+ be^{2x}= 0[/itex] for all x, then, taking x= 0, [itex]a+ b= 0[/itex]. Since [itex]ae^x+ be^{2x}= 0[/itex] for all x, differentiating with respect to x, [itex]ae^x+ 2be^{2x}= 0[/itex] for all x and, setting x= 0 again, [itex]a+ 2b= 0[/itex]. Subtracting the first equation from the second, (a+ 2b)- (a+ b)= b= 0. Putting b= 0 in either equation, a= 0. Is that what you are asking?

g_edgar said:
Incomplete. How about this...

[tex]\text{for all } a,\; \text{for all } b\; [(\text{for all } x,\; ae^x + be^{2x} =0)\Longrightarrow ( a=b=0)][/tex]
NO! It makes NO sense say "for all a, a= 0"! "If, for all x, ax= 0, then a= 0." It makes no sense to say "for all a" there.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 23 ·
Replies
23
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K