What Does the Russian Word Poshlost Really Mean?

[wrobel]

In Russian there is a word that is very hard to translate in English. Vladimir Nabokov believed that there is no English equivalent. This word is пошлость (pronounces poshlost). Very approximately speaking, this word expresses a negative esthetic estimate of something which claims to be exalted while actually it is banal and routinely. It is just one aspect of this concept.
For example, if you watch TV and encounter a legend about King Arthur in a tooth brush advertising.
This is poshlost as well:
Let's collect here untranslatable words from different languages. (With explanation surely:)

 

[PeroK]

Milan Kundera said the same thing about the Czech word litost: 'a state of agony and torment created by the sudden sight of one’s own misery'.

He said: “As for the meaning of this word, I have looked in vain in other languages for an equivalent, though I find it difficult to imagine how anyone can understand the human soul without it.”

 

[BWV]

Saudade

is a key emotion word for Portuguese speakers. Though akin to nostalgia or longing, the term has no direct equivalent in English. As the Brazilian musician Gilberto Gil sings in ‘Toda saudade’, it is the presence of absence, ‘of someone or some place – of something, anyway’. One can have saudades (the singular and plural forms are interchangeable) for people or places, as well as sounds, smells, and foods. One can even have saudades for saudade itself. That is because ‘it is good to have saudades’ (é bom ter saudades), as the common saying goes. There is a certain pleasure in the feeling. Though painful, the sting of saudades is a reminder of a good that came before.

https://aeon.co/ideas/saudade-the-untranslateable-word-for-the-presence-of-absence

 

[fresh_42]

Oh there are many, many words in a given language which cannot be translated into another, at least not by its real meaning. Sometimes they are just incorporated which leads to funny sentences in the eye of a native speaker. Ansatz is such an example of a German word used in English which always looks displaced to me. And there are many more. Butterbrot and Schlagbaum are two German words which made it into Russian if I'm right. Whether Bistro (=diner) stems from бы́стро is controversial, but dawai (=дава́ть) made it into our standard dictionary.

Anyway, my two standard examples for untranslatable are:

• schweigen (German), which means being silent, but not nearly as passive as the English translation suggests. It is a kind of an active silence, a decision rather than a state.
• sophisticated (English), which is an all rounder that doesn't have a single translation to German.

 

[PeroK]

English has adopted a number of German words that we have nothing like: e.g. Schadenfreude, Bildungsroman, Zeitgeist, Wanderlust, Kitsch, Leitmotiv.

 

[Vanadium 50]

FarfigNewton!

 

[fresh_42]

English has adopted a number of German words that we have nothing like: e.g. Schadenfreude, Bildungsroman, Zeitgeist, Wanderlust, Kitsch, Leitmotiv.

Thanks, that you didn't mention the war.

 

[Mark44]

Whether Bistro (=diner) stems from бы́стро is controversial, but dawai (=дава́ть) made it into our standard dictionary.

Bistro and бы́стро seem awfully close to me, despite the opinions of some French linguists. I didn't realize that davai (imperative - give!) had made it into German. (Your w is my v.) Going the other way, kartoffel (potato) was adopted into Russian and other Slavic languages (I believe), pretty much unchanged except for transliteration into Cyrillic.

 

[fresh_42]

Bistro and бы́стро seem awfully close to me, despite the opinions of some French linguists. I didn't realize that davai (imperative - give!) had made it into German. (Your w is my v.) Going the other way, kartoffel (potato) was adopted into Russian and other Slavic languages (I believe), pretty much unchanged except for transliteration into Cyrillic.

dawai stands for "hurry up!" in German. And now that you said it, I still go with 'kartoshka' if I'm talking to myself in the supermarket.

 

[wrobel]

I didn't know that kartoffel is a German word too. A large number of German words in Russian is not strange: historically Russia accepted European culture mainly from Germany.
Russian two step academic degrees system is from Germany as well as I understand

 

[fresh_42]

There is a Slavic minority in Germany since centuries and their language is an official one in that corner of the country. Europe is only a small, Asian peninsula, and Moscow is just 2-3 hours away - no big deal.

 

[Klystron]

Common Thai phrases and words often carry deep meaning and connotations not only difficult to translate but difficult to fully comprehend by farangs, foreigners not raised within Thai culture.

The common expression my pen lai ostensibly means "you are welcome" in response to khup Khun, "thank you". Culturally, my pen lai refers to an entire gamut of sabi bu, 'feeling fine'; including an unstated but subtle relaxation of social status and wish to share this internal happiness. My pen lai, I could have selected several other common expressions, describes a state of mind, of being, far beyond the often phatic expression "You're welcome!".

Say, as an unwitting farang, I directly address the abbot of a wat (monastery) with khup Khun, Khrup! The flustered monk may politely nod then look away. But if the saffron-robed elder smiles and responds my pen rai then I am invited to share a brief moment; perhaps comment on the tranquility of the wat, the breeze that swirls the scent of incense through the open pavilion ruffling the thin bits of gold foil adorning the placid statuary.

 

[wrobel]

Milan Kundera said the same thing about the Czech word litost: '

Interesting what would a native English speaker said about such a translation litost=cosuffering
I know that there is no such a word in English:)

 

[Mark44]

A large number of German words in Russian is not strange: historically Russia accepted European culture mainly from Germany.

It is my understanding that the court language of Tsar Peter (the Great) was French.

 

[PeroK]

Interesting what would a native English speaker said about such a translation litost=cosuffering
I know that there is no such a word in English:)

The nearest we have is self-pity.

 

[fresh_42]

It is my understanding that the court language of Tsar Peter (the Great) was French.

Yes, but he had Dutch ship constructors, Euler, Bering, German craftsmen and land surveyors, too. Russia wasn't nearly as isolated as we, who grow up in the cold war, may think. And don't forget Catherine the Great.

 

[fresh_42]

The nearest we have is self-pity.

But isn't co-suffering something else? As I understand it, it is the phenomenon that people living with someone who suffers, e.g. depression, alcoholism, etc. tend to show similar behavior, or at least suffer under the situation.

Another word I am missing is "fremdschämen". It means that someone is ashamed for what someone else is doing, too embarrassing to watch. This can happen watching a movie, or a real person. And it often happens on vacations. We all know these countrymen abroad who behave terribly, and we feel ashamed for them just because we have the same passport.

 

[PeroK]

But isn't co-suffering something else? As I understand it, it is the phenomenon that people living with someone who suffers, e.g. depression, alcoholism, etc. tend to show similar behavior, or at least suffer under the situation.

Yes, litost is nearer to self-pity.

 

[wrobel]

It is my understanding that the court language of Tsar Peter (the Great) was French

French come later in time of Russian Empress Catherine-II (German Princess Sophie of Anhalt-Zerbst)

 

[PeroK]

It is my understanding that the court language of Tsar Peter (the Great) was French.

The motto of the British monarch remains to this day "Dieu et mon droit".

 

[wrobel]

There is a Slavic minority in Germany since centuries and their language is an official one

and which language do they speak?

 

[pinball1970]

I always thought Ideges was an interesting one.

A Hungarian word that was described to me as the feeling that someone had just walked over ones grave.

Google translate just gives “nervous” when translated to English.

 

[DennisN]

Another word I am missing is "fremdschämen". It means that someone is ashamed for what someone else is doing, too embarrassing to watch.

We have a new, pretty funny, word in Swedish: skämskudde (which roughly means "embarrassement pillow".
From wiktionary:

From skämmas (“to be embarrassed”) +‎ kudde (“pillow; (couch) cushion”). It refers to the idea of seeing something so embarrassing that one gets the urge to hide one's face in a pillow or couch cushion, for example when watching a television program from a couch. The word has been attested in writing from at least 2002 and was possibly used as early as the 1980s.

I also remember reading a fun article about Japanese words that don't translate well. I will see if I can find it again.

 

[DennisN]

I also remember reading a fun article about Japanese words that don't translate well. I will see if I can find it again.

I didn't find the article I was thinking of, but I found another article on Lonely Planet with two of the words I was thinking of:
(Article: "Words that don't (but should) exist in English")

"Age-otori" (Japanese): To look worse after a haircut. (though the existence of the word is questioned in the article).

"Arigata meiwaku" (Japanese): 'Misplaced kindness' or 'unwelcome kindness'. I remember this one described as when someone does you an unwelcome favor which misfired, causing harm. In Swedish we have a word with roughly the same meaning, "björntjänst" (which roughly means "bear favor"):

a disservice, a mistaken kindness, a misguided helpfulness, an attempted favor which turns out to be detrimental, or at least causes more damage than it helps

 

[fresh_42]

and which language do they speak?

They have their own language, two to be exact https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbs

 

[fresh_42]

In Swedish we have a word with roughly the same meaning, "björntjänst" (which roughly means "bear favor"):

We have a similar word "Bärendienst": a service which better wouldn't have been given.

 

[Klystron]

Some once-popular American English words fail to translate across borders. Many news articles from the 1960's and 1970's discussed "hippies". I understand Russian language papers translated hippie as "vagabond", "hooligan" or "delinquent", the latter also a popular term in America at that time.

While ostensibly valid translations of the colloquial expression "hippie", they lack the common associations conveyed by the English-language newspaper writers; such as "long-haired", "unwashed", "poorly but colorfully dressed", "unshaven", "lazy", "unmotivated", "stoned", and "childish". "Vagabond" and "hooligan" could be applied to other groups or 'subcultures' -- a popular expression then -- such as gypsies, bums, hoboes or mummers. The 'child of nature', 'cosmic wanderer' and alternate music fan tropes became lost with "hippie" translated to "hooligan", essentially a criminal.

 

[Rive]

I always thought Ideges was an interesting one.

A Hungarian word that was described to me as the feeling that someone had just walked over ones grave.

Google translate just gives “nervous” when translated to English.

Sorry to kill that, but 'nervous' is absolutely correct (or it's me not understanding correctly what 'nervous' means ).

Ps.: regarding that grave-thing... well, it has no such meaning in particular.

 

[wrobel]

Ansatz is such an example of a German word used in English which always looks displaced to me.

I feel the same about the Polish word spacerowac (to walk) :)
it is not surprise when one special term jumps from one language to another one but when an absolutely ordinary word behaves in such a way, that is miracle

 

[pinball1970]

Sorry to kill that, but 'nervous' is absolutely correct (or it's me not understanding correctly what 'nervous' means ).

Ps.: regarding that grave-thing... well, it has no such meaning in particular.

Yes, stone dead.

I learned that “fact” in 1991 trusting the source (her father was Hungarian)