What education is required to work on finding cures for diseases

[nukeman]

(fyi my question mark button is broken lol)

I want to know what education is required to do research and work on finding cures for diseases and illnesses

I know question may be very vauge, but I just want to get a good idea. Would you say a Bsc in Chemistry and Biology, then after that what would one focus on in grad school

Thanks

 

[Astronuc]

One would major in biology or chemistry with options in biochemistry and medical sciences as part of pre-med curriculum.

For example - http://www.wwu.edu/advising/MajorGuides/biochemistry-bs.pdf

What kind of diseases does one mean - diseases due to parasites, bacteria, virus, cancers, endocrine disorders, . . . .?

 

[nukeman]

Thanks!

So, you have to go to medical schoolÉ and become a medical doctor, and not a Dr in biochemistryÉ

again sorry but question mark button does not work lol

One would major in biology or chemistry with options in biochemistry and medical sciences as part of pre-med curriculum.

For example - http://www.wwu.edu/advising/MajorGuides/biochemistry-bs.pdf

What kind of diseases does one mean - diseases due to parasites, bacteria, virus, cancers, endocrine disorders, . . . .?

 

[lisab]

Thanks!

So, you have to go to medical schoolÉ and become a medical doctor, and not a Dr in biochemistryÉ

again sorry but question mark button does not work lol

Here, you can copy-paste: ?

 

[Astronuc]

Thanks!

So, you have to go to medical school? and become a medical doctor, and not a Dr in biochemistry?

again sorry but question mark button does not work lol

No - not necessarily. One can become a medical doctor and specialize in specific diseases, e.g., become an oncologist (cancer specialist), tropical disease specialist, endocrinologist, . . . .

or one could specialize in biochemistry or biophysics -

or both.

See more examples of programs:

http://www.rpi.edu/dept/bio/undergraduate/bsbiochem.html

http://cis.ucla.edu/studyarea/course.asp?id=58

http://www.biology.neu.edu/undergradprograms/bsbiochem_1.html

http://view.fdu.edu/default.aspx?id=6184

An example of a tropical medicine program
http://apitmid.hawaii.edu/graduate_studies.html

Infectious diseases
http://www.aphl.org/profdev/fellowships/eid/pages/default.aspx
http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/cl...ectiousdisease/education/Graduate-Fellowships

One can look at various programs and review what qualifications are required.

 

[nukeman]

Wow, great! Thanks. Ill spend some time and look at those.

LisaB, thanks lol

Maybe you can answer this.

My main reason for wantign to go this route is to mainly do work with disorders, illnesses and problems with infants and children. What would that be

If wants to get there PhD in Biochem or Chemistry, and want to do research and work on cures for maybe cancers, or disorders, what does this person do after PhD is completed

sorry, i am new to this, so don't know much about the process any everthing. Thanks!

 

[Astronuc]

Wow, great! Thanks. Ill spend some time and look at those.

LisaB, thanks lol

Maybe you can answer this.

My main reason for wantign to go this route is to mainly do work with disorders, illnesses and problems with infants and children. What would that be

If wants to get there PhD in Biochem or Chemistry, and want to do research and work on cures for maybe cancers, or disorders, what does this person do after PhD is completed

sorry, i am new to this, so don't know much about the process any everthing. Thanks!

Children's medicine is pediatrics, and the specialty for infants is neonatology. One could look at diseases and illnesses in children/infants, or look at prenatal care. There is also the option of studying congenital disorders and diseases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congenital_disorder

http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide/congenital-heart-disease

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_congenital_disorders

 

[nukeman]

Great thanks. Appreciate it!

 

[chill_factor]

Biology or Biochemistry. Be warned that you're not likely to cure a disease; you'll be more likely to become a lab technician doing PCR all day, no creativity allowed.

If you go into pure chemistry, 90% of your classes have nothing to do with biology and you could graduate from a chemistry program without even touching biology.

I'm in 4th year of B.S. Chemistry; I used to be B.S. Biochemistry but I gave up doing work for the Bio part after I interned and found Biology wasn't applicable to the real world.

 

[nukeman]

Thanks for the reply!

So, if I wanted to major in Chemistry, and then do Chemistry in graduate school, get my PhD in chemistry, what would I mainly be doing, and what career can I be looking at?

So how do people end up working on research and working on finding cures for diseases?

Can you explain what you meant by you stopped biology because it was not applicable to the real world?

Again, thanks for all the replies, really helping a lot!

Cheers

Biology or Biochemistry. Be warned that you're not likely to cure a disease; you'll be more likely to become a lab technician doing PCR all day, no creativity allowed.

If you go into pure chemistry, 90% of your classes have nothing to do with biology and you could graduate from a chemistry program without even touching biology.

I'm in 4th year of B.S. Chemistry; I used to be B.S. Biochemistry but I gave up doing work for the Bio part after I interned and found Biology wasn't applicable to the real world.

 

[chill_factor]

Depends on what part. Curing diseases is quite a large area - how do you want to cure the disease? Let's say cancer. you can cure cancer by drugs, but you could also just chop the cancer out. If it's an unnecessary organ just chop the organ out even. Or you can use radiation. Chemistry can help with the first way, but you don't need any chemistry for the other 2 ways.

Chemistry is unique. It is a very applied science and it teaches you more about "how to think" and gives you the tools to apply your knowledge to practical problems, rather than rote memorization or brute force problem solving. Of course, that doesn't mean there won't be problems to do, but there's truly very little memorization needed.

You'll first learn general chemistry concepts such as stoichiometry, properties of the elements, introduction to atomic structure, basic chemical thermodynamics and chemical equilibria. This is prerequisite background knowledge to understanding any chemistry. Then you'll take organic chemistry, which will teach compound naming, reaction mechanisms, introduction to analytical techniques (that's where I got introduction to GCMS, IR and NMR), and design of synthesis pathways with applications to polymers, petrochemicals and pharmaceuticals (this is why I said chemistry is about learning how to think and gaining useful tools, since the same concepts can be applied to things from fuel cells to liver cells). Then you'll take inorganic chemistry which teaches transition metal chemistry, mostly electronic structure, organometallic compounds and applications to catalysis and biochemistry. At the same time, you'll take instrumental analysis where you learn the practical tools needed to investigate chemical problems and the theory behind their operation - HPLC, GCMS, IR, NMR, Absorption/Emission/Luminesence Spectroscopy, interfacing and programming of instruments and statistics. Then you'll finally take physical chemistry, which is the investigation of the physics of chemical reactions: quantum mechanics (structure and spectroscopy), advanced chemical thermodynamics, advanced chemical kinetics, transport phenomena and statistical mechanics.

In addition to these 4 main areas (organic, inorganic, analytical and physical) you will take required labs in each area and take 5-6 electives to specialize in a certain area: organic, inorganic, analytical, environmental, materials, biochemistry, chemical engineering or computation. My school accepts Chemistry electives from Geology, Physics, Chemical Engineering, Materials Engineering and Biology in addition to "in house" electives in advanced organic/inorganic/analytical/physical/computational chemistry. In addition, you'll be taking programming, math and physics classes as background knowledge in order to understand the concepts you're being taught and to gain the skills to solve real life problems.

EDIT:

you may be worried about outsourcing. in this aspect, I'll just say, the US doesn't need science and it definitely doesn't need chemistry. It needs:

wall street sharks
real estate fraud agents
wall street sharks+real estate fraud agent's enforcers (military)
the guys that make the enforcer's weapons
doctors, dentists, pharmacists, lawyers and nurses to take care of the wall street sharks.
mcdonalds workers and janitors.

pharmaceuticals are permanently downsizing, insiders all know there's no new drugs in the pipeline and everything is becoming generic when the patents wear off -> this means whoever is stronger in chemical engineering and bulk production will win the price wars, US chemical companies are shutting down and becoming more distributors for German, Korean and Chinese ones due to obsolete technology, lack of research, rigid management, excessive prices and terrible customer services.

if you want to make a contribution to science, better to move out of the US. if you want money, finance...

 

[nukeman]

Thanks for your info.

BTW, I'm from Canada, not the US.

Cheers

Depends on what part. Curing diseases is quite a large area - how do you want to cure the disease? Let's say cancer. you can cure cancer by drugs, but you could also just chop the cancer out. If it's an unnecessary organ just chop the organ out even. Or you can use radiation. Chemistry can help with the first way, but you don't need any chemistry for the other 2 ways.

Chemistry is unique. It is a very applied science and it teaches you more about "how to think" and gives you the tools to apply your knowledge to practical problems, rather than rote memorization or brute force problem solving. Of course, that doesn't mean there won't be problems to do, but there's truly very little memorization needed.

You'll first learn general chemistry concepts such as stoichiometry, properties of the elements, introduction to atomic structure, basic chemical thermodynamics and chemical equilibria. This is prerequisite background knowledge to understanding any chemistry. Then you'll take organic chemistry, which will teach compound naming, reaction mechanisms, introduction to analytical techniques (that's where I got introduction to GCMS, IR and NMR), and design of synthesis pathways with applications to polymers, petrochemicals and pharmaceuticals (this is why I said chemistry is about learning how to think and gaining useful tools, since the same concepts can be applied to things from fuel cells to liver cells). Then you'll take inorganic chemistry which teaches transition metal chemistry, mostly electronic structure, organometallic compounds and applications to catalysis and biochemistry. At the same time, you'll take instrumental analysis where you learn the practical tools needed to investigate chemical problems and the theory behind their operation - HPLC, GCMS, IR, NMR, Absorption/Emission/Luminesence Spectroscopy, interfacing and programming of instruments and statistics. Then you'll finally take physical chemistry, which is the investigation of the physics of chemical reactions: quantum mechanics (structure and spectroscopy), advanced chemical thermodynamics, advanced chemical kinetics, transport phenomena and statistical mechanics.

In addition to these 4 main areas (organic, inorganic, analytical and physical) you will take required labs in each area and take 5-6 electives to specialize in a certain area: organic, inorganic, analytical, environmental, materials, biochemistry, chemical engineering or computation. My school accepts Chemistry electives from Geology, Physics, Chemical Engineering, Materials Engineering and Biology in addition to "in house" electives in advanced organic/inorganic/analytical/physical/computational chemistry. In addition, you'll be taking programming, math and physics classes as background knowledge in order to understand the concepts you're being taught and to gain the skills to solve real life problems.

EDIT:

you may be worried about outsourcing. in this aspect, I'll just say, the US doesn't need science and it definitely doesn't need chemistry. It needs:

wall street sharks
real estate fraud agents
wall street sharks+real estate fraud agent's enforcers (military)
the guys that make the enforcer's weapons
doctors, dentists, pharmacists, lawyers and nurses to take care of the wall street sharks.
mcdonalds workers and janitors.

pharmaceuticals are permanently downsizing, insiders all know there's no new drugs in the pipeline and everything is becoming generic when the patents wear off -> this means whoever is stronger in chemical engineering and bulk production will win the price wars, US chemical companies are shutting down and becoming more distributors for German, Korean and Chinese ones due to obsolete technology, lack of research, rigid management, excessive prices and terrible customer services.

if you want to make a contribution to science, better to move out of the US. if you want money, finance...

 

[symbolipoint]

Biology's being "not for the real world", is not credible. One likely needs several university level courses with some research, and certainly there must be some Molecular Biology experts reading the forum who can discuss some practical value for Biology. And after 11 or 12 posts in this topic, why no mention of Microbiology?

 

[nukeman]

Thanks for that!

Reason I mentioned and kept mentioning Chemistry and not biology and microbiology is because my Bsc will be in Chemistry, with of course some biology, but mainly chemistry.

And from that I want to go on to grad school, and get my Phd in something related to chemistry, as after school I would love to work in curing and doing research on diseases.

I thought that whenever a new drug is made that may help cure something (in humans) it is made and research done by a chemist, not a biologist. Or am I simply wrong?

Thanks!

Biology's being "not for the real world", is not credible. One likely needs several university level courses with some research, and certainly there must be some Molecular Biology experts reading the forum who can discuss some practical value for Biology. And after 11 or 12 posts in this topic, why no mention of Microbiology?

 

[davidmigl]

A biologist would figure out what's going wrong in the disease state (i.e. identify an out-of-control enzyme). The chemist would then do something about it (like design a small molecular inhibitor). Of course that's a simplification but its the best I can do.

I somewhat agree with biology not being directly applicable to the real world. We simply don't have the tools (yet) to synthesize organisms like we synthesize chemicals. We can't predict and control the behavior of organisms like we can predict and control chemicals and electricity (yet). Theres a lot of exciting work being done in systems and synthetic biology that may eventually get us there one day but we're not there yet.

Conversely, more biological research is needed on pathology in order to give chemists drug targets to shoot for. There are many diseases (e.g. Alzheimers) that we won't be able to do anything about until we understand the disease better.

Lastly, when deciding what to go into, keep in mind that you can get into biology grad school with a chemistry degree, but it'll be much harder to get into Chemistry grad school with a friggin' bio degree.

 

[chill_factor]

Also note that Chemistry is intimately intertwined with many fields: biology, quantum and solid state physics, materials science, chemical engineering, geophysics and environmental science. It opens up ALOT of options.

However, bio is extremely specialized and narrow: you're forced to do only biology and medical stuff. What if you find that you don't actually want to do that? Then you're done and wasted your life. Chemistry can go in any direction they want. I know people that have gone to places as diverse as semiconductors, petrochemicals, pharmaceuticals, materials (polymers, steel and ceramics all represented) and finance. A chemistry degree not only is highly employable but gets you respect so that even if you shine shoes for a living, the chemistry knowledge of what goes into shoe polish will help you shine shoes better than a high school dropout.

 

[fasterthanjoao]

However, bio is extremely specialized and narrow: you're forced to do only biology and medical stuff. What if you find that you don't actually want to do that? Then you're done and wasted your life. Chemistry can go in any direction they want.

I don't think you should give out any more advice if you're going to take a stance like that. Being biased towards chemistry when you have a degree in it is fine, but taking it to this level isn't. Biology degrees aren't "extremely specialised" - the general skills you get in a biology degree are similar to general skills in any science degree. A biology graduate can head to lots of different types of work place positions, just the same as a chemistry graduate can - to suggest that it's somehow "all-or-wasted-your-life" is just wrong and unhelpful. Also 'medical stuff' is just a colossal area, you can't write it off as a "but if you don't like that.." type thing, because there's so many different roles.

Saying that chemistry is intertwined with things like quantum mechanics and solid state physics is also a bit of a fallacy - you would find it very difficult as a chemist to study actual quantum physics, rather than quantum chemistry, for instance. They are intertwined in that physics is necessary to explain some things in chemistry, but this is the same as the fact that chemistry is necessary to explain things in biology. To suggest that chemistry is some sort of mega-science degree is acting a bit grandiose.

 

[Cod]

There was an article in the Washington Post earlier this month about bioinformatics. From what I gathered, it seems the field gets a lot of attention around the medical world and is in demand. Not sure how much biology and medical science it entails though.