News What Exactly Is Happening In the Arab/Persian World?

[nismaratwork]

Those poor people don't have a chance.

You're right, AFAICT this is a countdown to a massacre.

 

[lisab]

Wow, this is all just mind-blowing! Thanks for that translation, Nismar. It's...terrifying.

 

[nismaratwork]

Wow, this is all just mind-blowing! Thanks for that translation, Nismar. It's...terrifying.

To be clear, not my translation, but CNN's, with a teensy bit of me where the translator clearly was struggling.

I agree on the terifying... Libyans must be absolutely horrified.

 

[rootX]

Welcome to reality.
...

It's wonderful!

 

[rootX]

Those poor people don't have a chance.

BBC mentioned somewhere that Gaddafi's son reference to civil war might imply that half of the country is out of control. There are about 5 different articles on Libya, I couldn't find where it was mentioned.

His video:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12520586

That was one of the strangest political speeches I think I've ever sat through.

He was completely and utterly detached from the reality of what is going on in his country.

To put it bluntly, most Libyans will just treat it as gibberish - it was completely meaningless to them.

The idea that they're somehow going to sit down and have a national dialogue with a government that's brought in foreign mercenaries to shoot at them is laughable.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2011/02/reporting_from_libya.html

Reporting from Libya is tricky at the best of times - clearly, the situation there right now is anything but.

BBC looks very cautious about providing updates on Libya due to difficulty in getting accurate and credible information.

 

[lisab]

It's wonderful!

Omg, root, that made me snork!

 

[DevilsAvocado]

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/166231.html"

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/166231.html"

hmmm I'm thinking Venezuela. Why would a nation seeking credibility like Brazil harbor him?

 

[nismaratwork]

hmmm I'm thinking Venezuela. Why would a nation seeking credibility like Brazil harbor him?

I hope not, and have to believe not, but money does a lot of things. The world has done a lot of business with Libya, including the US and EU; I'm not sure we'd have much moral authority there.

Still, it would bring bad associations of Rat-Lines from WWII...


Personally, I'll believe he's left when I see him in another country.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

hmmm I'm thinking Venezuela. Why would a nation seeking credibility like Brazil harbor him?

You’re right:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/02/21/uk-libya-venezuela-idUKTRE71K3RQ20110221

Hague: some information Gaddafi on way to Venezuela

(Reuters) - Foreign Secretary William Hague said on Monday he had seen some information to suggest Libyan President Muammar Gaddafi had fled the country and was on his way to Venezuela.

EDIT:
"Diplomats said Hague was not referring to rumours circulating in the media about Gaddafi's whereabouts, but to separate sources for the information."


EDIT2:
Related??
Two Libyan fighter jets land in Malta
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/02/21/us-libya-protests-malta-idUKTRE71K3I520110221

 

[WhoWee]

It's time to pay attention to Russia.

http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFLDE71K0ZJ20110221

http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/01/30/us-russia-libya-arms-idUSTRE60T1ED20100130

"Libya, Russia agree $1.8 billion arms deal: Putin"

 

[DevilsAvocado]

It's wonderful!

 

[DevilsAvocado]

He looks tired, doesn’t he?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

He looks tired, doesn’t he?

he looks like he's in a wax museum

 

[DevilsAvocado]

he looks like he's in a wax museum

Muhahaha!

 

[fuzzyfelt]

Incredible. Thanks for the commentry here.

 

[DevilsAvocado]

BBC: ('resign') Senior Gaddafi diplomats in UN verdicts on the Gaddafi’s 'methods': "war crime"

 

[DevilsAvocado]

I’ve been listening to Swedish public radio and reports from Libya, and they said that right now they are using http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_helicopter" .

Libya consist of different clans and Gaddafi has used this to "divide and rule" by chasing different clans at each other. The military is very much 'affected' by this, and for example the air force consist of one clan only – Gaddafi’s own...

If the old wax man has not fled the country, this could develop into a civil war, alternatively a "bombing genocide"...

 

[DevilsAvocado]

... IMO, he's giving a deadline before military force is used without restraint in the form of Bedouins and mercnaries who will be blamed as "drunken, drugged" "criminal immigrants."

Thanks for the 'translation' nismar. Saif al-Islam Muammar Al-Gaddafi (Sword of Islam Muammar al-Gaddafi) is educated in London, but they apparently forgot the media training... not even the camels would believe this mumbo-jumbo...

 

[Astronuc]

He looks tired, doesn’t he?

Looks tired and pissed.

His oldest son seems to want to follow in his footsteps. What a nut!
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/21/133930180/libya-protesters-security-clash-in-capital
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/21/133932012/Libya-Protests-Update


That family has got to go.

Interesting commentary this morning about how many leaders are shocked by the fact that the Egyptian and Tunisian armies supported the people - not the dictators. Well it's about time.

Force Is Likely A Dated Formula Against Protesters
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/21/133932028/Arabs-Leaders-Strategy

 

[nismaratwork]

Looks tired and pissed.

His oldest son seems to want to follow in his footsteps. What a nut!
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/21/133930180/libya-protesters-security-clash-in-capital
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/21/133932012/Libya-Protests-Update


That family has got to go.

Interesting commentary this morning about how many leaders are shocked by the fact that the Egyptian and Tunisian armies supported the people - not the dictators. Well it's about time.

Force Is Likely A Dated Formula Against Protesters
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/21/133932028/Arabs-Leaders-Strategy

Sure he's tired, it's hard work having to maintain that kind of harem, throwing wild parties, AND oppressing a people!

He's had a hard life... I think it's only fair that he be relieved of his burden.
Where's an Aleph-Bet team when you need one.

 

[turbo]

Sure he's tired, it's hard work having to maintain that kind of harem, throwing wild parties, AND oppressing a people!

Libya is tribally fragmented, and he has maintained control by playing groups off against one another. What will happen if he leaves, and who will fill the power vacuum and control the military? Will his clan try to continue to hold power? Will there be inter-tribal warfare or a divided country? I'd hate to have huge fixed investments in Libya, like oil-production infrastructure, with that kind of uncertainty. If a coalition of tribes bands together to seize power, and they decide to finance their new government by nationalizing foreign concerns, there could be some upheaval in the oil markets.

Edit: Breaking news. Earlier today a couple of Libyan fighter jets landed in Malta. It is reported that the pilots (colonels) decided to defect after being ordered to bomb protesters in Benghazi.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_libya_protests_malta;_ylt=ArdyqmsuHrCx_RtnzmAObsWs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNuaHFhMHFwBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTEwMjIxL3VzX2xpYnlhX3Byb3Rlc3RzX21hbHRhBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDMgRwb3MDNwRwdANob21lX2Nva2UEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDdHdvbGlieWFuZmln

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Edit: Breaking news. Earlier today a couple of Libyan fighter jets landed in Malta. It is reported that the pilots (colonels) decided to defect after being ordered to bomb protesters in Benghazi.

Thank the heavens, that is absolute lunacy!

 

[nismaratwork]

Libya is tribally fragmented, and he has maintained control by playing groups off against one another. What will happen if he leaves, and who will fill the power vacuum and control the military? Will his clan try to continue to hold power? Will there be inter-tribal warfare or a divided country? I'd hate to have huge fixed investments in Libya, like oil-production infrastructure, with that kind of uncertainty. If a coalition of tribes bands together to seize power, and they decide to finance their new government by nationalizing foreign concerns, there could be some upheaval in the oil markets.

Edit: Breaking news. Earlier today a couple of Libyan fighter jets landed in Malta. It is reported that the pilots (colonels) decided to defect after being ordered to bomb protesters in Benghazi.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_libya_protests_malta;_ylt=ArdyqmsuHrCx_RtnzmAObsWs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNuaHFhMHFwBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTEwMjIxL3VzX2xpYnlhX3Byb3Rlc3RzX21hbHRhBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDMgRwb3MDNwRwdANob21lX2Nva2UEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDdHdvbGlieWFuZmln

It's confirmed; there's video now of the pilots disembarking in Malta, 2 MiGs...

- Two Libyan Air Force fighter pilots defected on Monday and flew their jets to Malta where they told authorities they had been ordered to bomb protesters, Maltese government officials said.

They said the two pilots, both colonels, took off from a base near Tripoli. One of them has requested political asylum.

From what I saw they had a simple "iron bomb" loadout... Ghaddaffi was going to drop bombs on his second largest city. A helicopter can use rockets and its gun, but iron bombs from a JET?! Wow... that is COLD.


EDIT: merger

Thank the heavens, that is absolute lunacy!

Unfortunately their helicopter pilots don't seem as restrained. Still... good for those pilots... that's not easy. If they have family in Libya, and Ghaddafi survives this... it's typical for them to used as hostages. Very VERY brave <snip> men.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

It's confirmed; there's video now of the pilots disembarking in Malta, 2 MiGs...

Both were colonels!

 

[nismaratwork]

Both were colonels!

True, but without knowing the Libyan military structure, it may be that you don't trust a fighter jet to anything less. I'm not even sure what a Libyan Colonel represents... in the USA it would be someone carrying out the orders of generals along the chain of command.

Of course... Isn't 'uncle' Moamar a Col.?!

Still, the Ghaddafis must be fuming at the loss of the jets and armaments. Hence the insane bravery... they've probably just killed their families (usually "kept") back in Al 'Azīzīyah... very brave.

 

[turbo]

Just a correction - the fighters were French-built Mirages, not MIGs.

 

[Evo]

Venezuela denies that Qaddafi is headed there, rumors that Qaddafi left are unconfirmed.

No major newswire has confirmed the rumor.

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7023570330?Gaddafi%20rumored%20to%20have%20left%20Libya;%20travel%20to%20Venezuela%20denied#

 

[nismaratwork]

Just a correction - the fighters were French-built Mirages, not MIGs.

Whoops! That's not a small miss...

News: US official, according to CNN that helicopter gunships are opening fire (at least with main guns) into crowds outisde of Tripoli.

 

[Astronuc]

Libya protests spread as barrier of fear crumbles
The son of Libyan leader Muammar Qaddafi tried to intimidate Libyans Sunday, warning in a TV speech of civil war and foreign plots. But Libya's wave of democracy protests is strengthening as protesters ignore violence that has claimed more than 200 lives.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Midd...a-protests-spread-as-barrier-of-fear-crumbles

Clinton: Gadhafi must stop bloodshed
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110221/ap_on_re_us/us_us_libya


Like Gadhafi is going to listen and restrain himself?

How about a no fly zone? Prevent the helicopters from firing on civilians.