News What Exactly Is Happening In the Arab/Persian World?

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Protests in Egypt have escalated into violence, with reports of protesters being beaten and arrested, including journalists. The unrest is characterized as significant but not an outright uprising, contrasting with the recent events in Tunisia. Rumors suggest that President Mubarak's family may have fled the country, raising concerns about potential instability. As protests continue, there are fears that the situation could worsen, particularly with a planned massive demonstration. The emergence of a leaderless youth movement is seen as a critical factor in challenging Mubarak's long-standing regime.
  • #961
Gaddafi is soon speaking on state television. Will we have an even greater "umbrella comedy" this time??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weY5Lht2UAI
 
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  • #962
WhoWee said:
Out of the ashes...?

I’m not sure I follow your reasoning...? Are you saying that all that is happening in the Arab World is due to the powers of President Obama, solely??
 
  • #963
DevilsAvocado said:
I’m not sure I follow your reasoning...? Are you saying that all that is happening in the Arab World is due to the powers of President Obama, solely??

I think words have meaning (did you read his words?) - actions have consequences -and leader's lead. If President Obama remains silent on the sidelines NOW - along with the UN and the rest of the world - a leader will eventually emerge - out of the ashes.
 
  • #964
DevilsAvocado said:
I’m not sure I follow your reasoning...? Are you saying that all that is happening in the Arab World is due to the powers of President Obama, solely??
WhoWee was citing Obama's comments on the current situation.

Out of the ashes - meaning the US is waiting for the folks in various nations to sort out their situation, and ostensibly the US will work with these folks to improve their situation through good relations and trade.
 
  • #965
WhoWee said:
I think words have meaning (did you read his words?) - actions have consequences -and leader's lead. If President Obama remains silent on the sidelines NOW - along with the UN and the rest of the world - a leader will eventually emerge - out of the ashes.
Make that plural - leaders will emerge. And hopefully a set of leaders who are committed to democracy rather than corrupt oligarchies or dictatorships.
 
  • #966
Astronuc said:
WhoWee was citing Obama's comments on the current situation.
Actually, that was Obama's speech in Cairo, from way back in early 2009. Like DA, I'm not following WhoWee's argument either.

If Obama is silent, a leader will emerge. (Is this a good thing or a bad thing?) And what happens if he is not silent?
 
  • #967
WhoWee said:
I think words have meaning

But my friend, this is not consequent with your standing on Sarah Palin’s words and her guilt for the shooting in AZ, right? So what is it – words do have a meaning, or they do not?

2po461c.jpg


bdjr6r.jpg
34rars4.jpg


With this 'logic' in the AZ thread I can just dismiss your view with: "Oh no! Obama is just having fun!"

WhoWee said:
(did you read his words?)

Yes, I even watched the video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BlqLwCKkeY

I think it’s a great speech, and so do several high rank politicians in Israel. What would you like him to say? "We are working hard for 'our friends' to have another 30-40 years of brutal suppression of their citizens." ?:bugeye:?

WhoWee said:
President Obama remains silent on the sidelines NOW

Any advice? What should he say? What should he do?

I also think that words do have a meaning, but to put all the blame on Obama is a little naive. Don’t you think?
 
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  • #968
Astronuc said:
WhoWee was citing Obama's comments on the current situation.

As Gokul said, citing was from Obama’s Speech in Cairo on June 4, 2009.

(I think our friend WhoWee is taking any chance possible throwing dirt on Obama. I’m not religious, but I thank GOD that GWB, or worse Mrs. Palin is not at the rudder right now = "CALL IN THE CAVALRY!" :wink:)
 
  • #969
Gaddafi speaking on state television.

EDIT:
Is he drunk??!? :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:
 
  • #970
DevilsAvocado said:
As Gokul said, citing was from Obama’s Speech in Cairo on June 4, 2009.

(I think our friend WhoWee is taking any chance possible throwing dirt on Obama. I’m not religious, but I thank GOD that GWB, or worse Mrs. Palin is not at the rudder right now = "CALL IN THE CAVALRY!" :wink:)
I don't see WhoWee's comment should be taken that way. In fact, I see a connection between Obama's statements then, and what the young folks are doing now. These protests have been building for some time.

There was an interesting statement last week about the fact that the US cannot be seen (overtly) as driving any of the revolutions. The various groups in the various countries must exercise their self-determination.

One arab journalist indicated that he was impressed with the young folk and their initiative while feeling out of synch because his generation didn't see it coming. The young folk have by-passed the media and traditional institutions.

Please be careful about personalizing statements.
 
  • #971
Astronuc said:
I don't see WhoWee's comment should be taken that way.

Okay, let WhoWee explain exactly what he mean.
 
  • #972
DevilsAvocado said:
Gaddafi speaking on state television.

EDIT:
Is he drunk??!? :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:

Respectfully, I do not think Muslims drink.
He did look tho so scared as his toenails might fly off!
 
  • #973
DevilsAvocado said:
Gaddafi speaking on state television.

EDIT:
Is he drunk??!? :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:

That dude looks like he needs more fiber in his diet.
 
  • #974
Lacy33 said:
Respectfully, I do not think Muslims drink.

Of course you’re right Lacy, sorry. But he looks weird... the turban full of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khat" ...?
 
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  • #975
lisab said:
That dude looks like he needs more fiber in his diet.

Definitely!

300px-Muammar_al-Gaddafi_at_the_AU_summit.jpg
 
  • #976
DevilsAvocado said:
Gaddafi speaking on state television.

EDIT:
Is he drunk??!? :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:
Would I be right if I guessed that you haven't watched a Gaddafi speech before? This - though I only watched for 2 painful minutes - looks to me like a typical Gaddafi ramble. Of course, in those two minutes, I couldn't figure out heads-or-tails of what he was going on about (some boy who misunderstood a poem?), but that doesn't really surprise me.
 
  • #977
Gokul43201 said:
... though I only watched for 2 painful minutes - looks to me like a typical Gaddafi ramble.
Mamma Mia...
 
  • #978
OK, many, many years ago my mother thought this hunk-o-man was all handsome and Dashing in his fancy clothes ... and she was drunk! :devil: Sorry mom... grounded me one too many times.
 
  • #979
So two Iranian warships are heading up the Suez Canal.

Expected response from America/other nations?

Also what interest does Iran have for sending these warships up the canal?
 
  • #980
Back to reality:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWHhkh7th5M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeUekoIzeow
 
  • #981
Gokul43201 said:
Haven't you heard?

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/raymond-davis-had-taliban-links-pak-media-87066

oh my, you don't suppose CIA is still involved in terrorist activities, do you?
 
  • #982
zomgwtf said:
So two Iranian warships are heading up the Suez Canal.

Expected response from America/other nations?

Also what interest does Iran have for sending these warships up the canal?

2lnfnv4.jpg

The Alvand

33f49y9.jpg

The Kharg

yoy0j.png
 
  • #983
Lacy33 said:
... and she was drunk! :devil:

Thank God!

(:wink:)
 
  • #984
Ben Wedemen said:
People [in Benghazi] rolled their eyes at [Ghaddafi's] speech

This is getting very ugly.
 
  • #985
nismaratwork said:
It's not a silly question at all, in fact it's central to this issue.

Ghaddafi united a number of tribes with showmanship, terror, and more. This is factionalized, along clan/tribal lines... which is on one hand why Benghazi is now "free". On the other hand, it's why Ghaddafi is happy to BOMB them... they're not "his people" from his view, once they defect from his "coalition".

Yes, Libya is different from the other Middle East countries trying to dump current rulers. Libya is more similar to Afghanistan where tribal affiliations drive politics more than ideology.

Almost anything could happen - from the country breaking up into 2 or more nations to a new dictator selected by a few united tribes replacing Gaddafi. A united democracy or a united theocratic government are among the few outcomes that aren't realistic possibilities.

Gaddafi is done, but Western Libya might wind up being run by one of the tribes allied with Gaddafi. At least it would be run by someone with experience in government since position within Gaddafi's government tends to be given out to tribes allied with Gaddafi. Who knows what will happen in Eastern Libya, but I doubt it will be ruled by anyone previously allied with Gaddafi.
 
  • #986
BobG said:
Yes, Libya is different from the other Middle East countries trying to dump current rulers. Libya is more similar to Afghanistan where tribal affiliations drive politics more than ideology.

Almost anything could happen - from the country breaking up into 2 or more nations to a new dictator selected by a few united tribes replacing Gaddafi. A united democracy or a united theocratic governments are among the few outcomes that aren't realistic possibilities.

Gaddafi is done, but Western Libya might wind up being run by one of the tribes allied with Gaddafi. At least it would be run by someone with experience in government since position within Gaddafi's government tends to be given out to tribes allied with Gaddafi. Who knows what will happen in Eastern Libya, but I doubt it will be ruled by anyone previously allied with Gaddafi.

I'd have to agree with you, but I'd add... that "shaking out" process is going to do so much damage to infrastructure tribalism divided between East (Benghazi, Tripoli), central (Al-Aziziyah, other bedouin/Ghaddafi strongholds), and places such as Shahat may be the short-term. Benghazi already seems to have functionally ceceded from the current Libya, hence (IMO) the order to BOMB, not just shoot.
 
  • #987
DevilsAvocado said:
Gaddafi speaking on state television.

EDIT:
Is he drunk??!? :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:

On American TV, you're listening to an interpreter; not Gaddafi. In this case, you're listening to an interpreter that seems to be having some trouble following Gaddafi's speech. That just amplifies the effect. (But even Arab listeners reported that it was a rambling speech that was difficult to follow.)
 
  • #988
BobG said:
On American TV, you're listening to an interpreter; not Gaddafi. In this case, you're listening to an interpreter that seems to be having some trouble following Gaddafi's speech. That just amplifies the effect. (But even Arab listeners reported that it was a rambling speech that was difficult to follow.)

I'm very good with the structures of languages, but my recall stinks for paired-word association. Still, I'm familiar enough with spoken Arabic that with the interpreter, that was truly WEIRD.

It's kind of tough also, because he spoke in his usual flowery metaphors, but not necessarily the right ones. Lots of referenes to Hadith, but again... in odd places.
 
  • #989
Astronuc said:
I don't see WhoWee's comment should be taken that way. In fact, I see a connection between Obama's statements then, and what the young folks are doing now. These protests have been building for some time.

There was an interesting statement last week about the fact that the US cannot be seen (overtly) as driving any of the revolutions. The various groups in the various countries must exercise their self-determination.

One arab journalist indicated that he was impressed with the young folk and their initiative while feeling out of synch because his generation didn't see it coming. The young folk have by-passed the media and traditional institutions.

Please be careful about personalizing statements.

There are many factors at work in the Middle East - clearly. I do give President Obama credit for giving young people a motivational push - is he somehow responsible for everything that is happening - of course not.

As for influence, like it or not, the Cold War relationships are still in place. The US has been clearly aligned with Egypt and Israel. The Russians have influence over Libya and Iran. I believe the Russians have enough - credibility - with the Libyan leader and people to control the situation if they choose.

As for the "out of the ashes" comment - I believe in the natural order of things. The people of the Middle East have always been ruled or threatened by a major power - they have never been a free democracy in the western sense. I see no clear indication that is the goal of the people. I also believe in the predicable outcome of power vacuums - they are filled by the strongest force.

When you read the words of President Obama - he hedged his bet to communicate with the young people (IMO) with the references to Islam - something they understand as a force. If a person or persons don't rise above the conflicts - the dominant force in the region is religion - not democracy.

I give Obama credit for understanding this point - I just disagree with his "packaging" of the US's embrace of all things Muslim.

Also IMO - this posturing has created a situation where President Obama must defend all things Muslim (or at least not acknowledge) when there are problems (Fort Hood, Ground Zero Mosque, Muslim Brotherhood, underwear bomber, etc.).

Something else I touched on earlier is the UN response to the turmoil in the Middle East. This is arguably the greatest opportunity they've ever had to make a difference - but appear to not even have a plan?

What should President of the United States of America Obama do now? Protect our national interests including our allies, the shipping lanes, private property of US citizens, and the oil fields we depend upon for energy. I also hope he's asked Putin (and anyone else that has influence) to do something in Libya to stop the slaughter.
 
  • #990
I listened to an interview with a young woman in Libya. She said that the Libyan people are 'waiting' for Gadhafi to leave, 'not hoping, but waiting'. :rolleyes:

He doesn't seem inclined to leave peacefully.

Various Libyan ambassadors are quitting the regime, requesting support from the UN and other nations, and condemning Gadhafi. Even members of the Libyan government want him gone. It seems only certain elements of the military want to retain him.

Audio reports
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/22/133958104/libyas-u-s-ambassador-on-quitting-libyas-future
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/22/133955149/Libya-Update

In eastern Libya -
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/22/133955129/Libya-Border
 

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