What happened to fuel-cell technology?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the current state and challenges of fuel-cell technology, particularly in relation to its application in automotive and material handling industries. Participants explore the environmental benefits of fuel cells, the competition with battery technology, and the infrastructure needed for hydrogen refueling.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express curiosity about the decline in fuel-cell technology, questioning whether safety concerns regarding hydrogen storage are a major factor.
  • Others point out that batteries are currently cheaper and more reliable for automotive applications, although they acknowledge that fuel cells have specific uses.
  • One participant highlights the potential of fuel cells in material handling, noting their advantages over traditional batteries in terms of operational efficiency and refueling convenience.
  • Concerns are raised about the high costs of fuel cells and the lack of refueling infrastructure, which may hinder their adoption in the automotive market.
  • There is a discussion about the environmental benefits of fuel cells, particularly the fact that their only exhaust product is water, which some participants find appealing.
  • Questions are posed regarding the safety of hydrogen compared to gasoline and the current solutions for hydrogen storage challenges.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of views, with some acknowledging the potential of fuel cells while others emphasize the current dominance of battery technology. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the future viability and adoption of fuel cells in various markets.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention the limitations of current fuel-cell technology, including high costs, infrastructure needs, and safety concerns related to hydrogen storage. There is also a reference to the historical context of superconductors and their failed potential for energy storage.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals involved in energy technology, automotive engineering, environmental science, and those curious about alternative fuel sources and their implications for sustainability.

  • #61
etudiant said:
The DOE did qualify that to be $47/kW for an 80kW cell in volume production of 500,000 units/yr.
So you may be looking for some extended period.

I'll take several, please, when you find them.

yes. I saw the 500,000 units/yr figure. (economies of scale, blah, blah...)

hmmm...

I just checked out "HowStuffWorks" where someone described how to build one.
The link that allows you to buy platinum coated nickel: "You can order one online for 15 bucks." is dead.

I say conspiracy!

Though I see Platinum is in the same column of the periodic elements as Nickel.

I will never understand chemistry, nor Earthling economics:

Nickel:[/PLAIN] $0.40/ounce
Platinum: $1453.00/ounce


:cry:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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  • #62
Nickel 150 ppm on earth, platinum 0.005 ppm. Heavy elements are rare, especially compared to elements up to iron.
 
  • #63
jim hardy said:
Folks far removed from the energy industry generally don't grasp the scale.

The world uses around a cubic mile of oil per year.
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3084

CMO.jpg


From http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/fossil-fuels/joules-btus-quadslets-call-the-whole-thing-off


,, "here" referring to this graphic from 'theoildrum'

ncmo01_0.gif


So start today building a hundred windmills every day.
At end of fifty years, if they last that long, you'd have built enough (about 1.6 million) that you could shut off the oil spigot. Well for today's usage anyway (actually 2006's).
But the first half million you built will be getting might rickety by then...
And that's a technology problem not a political one.

But to the subject of the thread -
Hydrogen is awful stuff to handle. I would not ride in the same car with a bottle of 3000 psi hydrogen .
I do like the fuel cell idea when coupled with H2 production by reducing water with aluminum.
http://www.alumifuelinternational.com/company.html



old jim

Is this oil usage estimate strictly for fuel - or all uses?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #64
enosis_ said:
Is this oil usage estimate strictly for fuel - or all uses?
Does it matter? The non-fuel uses, chemical feed stocks and the like, are a relatively small fraction of the total.
 

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