What happens during electron capture physically?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the process of electron capture, specifically the physical mechanisms involved when a proton captures an electron, resulting in the formation of a neutron. Participants explore the interactions at the quark level, the nature of fundamental particles, and the implications of these processes in different contexts, including neutron stars and high-energy physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe electron capture as a weak interaction where an electron and an up quark transform into a down quark and an electron neutrino.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of fundamental particles, with some asserting that while electrons are fundamental, they can be created and destroyed in interactions.
  • One participant questions whether quarks can combine to form heavier quarks, particularly in extreme environments like neutron stars.
  • Another participant states that a single quark cannot be observed due to its color charge and that quarks combine to form colorless states.
  • There are inquiries about the possibility of down quarks combining with electrons to create heavier quarks, which some participants refute, stating that charge conservation prohibits this.
  • Participants discuss the charm and top quarks, questioning their interactions with electrons and referencing decay modes and branching factors related to electron capture.
  • One participant mentions that heavier quarks are produced from reactions involving lighter quarks or leptons, citing specific high-energy physics experiments.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of interactions involving quarks and electrons, with some asserting that certain combinations are not possible while others explore the implications of these interactions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of quark combinations and the broader implications of electron capture.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about particle interactions, the definitions of fundamental particles, and the specifics of quark behavior in high-energy environments. Mathematical steps and detailed mechanisms of interactions are not fully resolved.

intothefire
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I wonder if someone could explain what is known about electron capture in which a proton captures an electron which then becomes a neutron? I have read that a proton which has two up quarks and a single down quark will have the the creation and destruction of multiple quark - antiquark pairs within the diameter of the proton happening.

But an electron is also a fundamental particle so, what happens there?

Does for example, the electron knock out one of the up quarks which allows a down quark - antidown quark pair to take advantage of the situation? Such that, the down quark remains in the particle and the antidown quark goes away with the up quark as a meson with up quark - antidown quark character? What happens to the electron though? It is a fundamental particle and cannot be destroyed correct?

thanks
 
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It's a weak interaction via a charged current. On the fundamental level it's ##u+e \rightarrow \nu_e+d##.
 
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intothefire said:
It is a fundamental particle and cannot be destroyed correct?
Not correct. “Fundamental” means (loosely) “isn’t made of anything smaller”, but fundamental particles can be created and destroyed. For example, an electron and a positron can turn into photons, and under the right circumstances (google for “pair production”) a photon can produce an electron-positron pair.

Thus, the interaction here is just as vanhees says above: an electron and an up quark turn into a down quark and electron neutrino. The electron is no more, the neutrino heads off into empty space, and where we had an up quark we now have a down quark.

(Although electrons can be created and destroyed, electric charge and something called “lepton number” must be conserved. The electron and the neutrino both have lepton number one, so the interaction is allowed)
 
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thanks everyone,

But to pursue this a bit farther - are there any situations where quarks combine together, perhaps to form heavier quarks? Perhaps this might happen in a neutron star?
 
Everything around us is made of quarks combining to colorless bound states. A single quark cannot be observable since it's a gauge-dependent object since it carries non-zero color charge.
 
Can the down quark combine with an electron to make another heavier quark? Where could I find more information about the types of interactions that vanhees71 cited? Is there some layman's book that discuss the various types of electron capture in these terms? thanks
 
I'm not sure whether it covers electron capture in great detail, but on a popular-science level I found Lederman's "The God Particle" quite well and amusing to read. Another one is Veltman, Facts and mysteries of elementary particle physics.
 
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intothefire said:
Can the down quark combine with an electron to make another heavier quark?
No.
Electron is negative.
All quarks other than down are either same charge as down or else more positive.
 
But what about these more positive quarks such as charm and top (truth) quarks? Can they combine with the electron?

Incidentally, anyone know why top and bottom are more popular names than truth and beauty? I rather like the latter names.
 
  • #10
intothefire said:
But what about these more positive quarks such as charm and top (truth) quarks? Can they combine with the electron?
For the charmed lambda (charmed sigmas are resonances), semileptonic decay modes are in percents:
http://pdg.lbl.gov/2008/listings/s033.pdfpage 4 quotes 2,1 % for Λe+νe
What are the branching factors for electron captures:
Λc+e+=Λ+νe
Λc+e+=n+νe
?
 
  • #11
snorkack said:
Λc+e+=Λ+νe
Λc+e+=n+νe
Sorry, seems cannot edit,
Of course
Λc+e-=Λ+νe
Λc+e-=n+νe
 
  • #12
So what is happening here?: Λc+e-=n+νe

The charm quark is heavier than the down quark so if the charm quark becomes a down quark does that mean that the neutron and electron neutrino are moving with great momentum?

Sorry about the superscripts and subscripts. I can't seem to find the LaTeX controls.
 
  • #13
intothefire said:
So what is happening here?: Λc+e-=n+νe

The charm quark is heavier than the down quark so if the charm quark becomes a down quark does that mean that the neutron and electron neutrino are moving with great momentum?
Yes.
intothefire said:
Sorry about the superscripts and subscripts. I can't seem to find the LaTeX controls.
I found subscripts and superscripts from above the edit window, the icon with three dots and arrow. Opening the arrow.
 
  • #14
Moderator's note: Moved thread to high energy physics forum.
 
  • #15
intothefire said:
But to pursue this a bit farther - are there any situations where quarks combine together, perhaps to form heavier quarks? Perhaps this might happen in a neutron star?
All the heavier quarks are produced in reactions of lighter quarks or leptons.

What B-factories like SuperKEKB routinely do: ##e^- e^+ \to b \bar b##, a pair of bottom and anti-bottom created from leptons (via a virtual photon).
Very common reactions at the LHC: ##g + g \to b \bar b## or ##u + \bar u \to b \bar b## or ##d + \bar d \to b \bar b## or any other quark/antiquark pair.
intothefire said:
The charm quark is heavier than the down quark so if the charm quark becomes a down quark does that mean that the neutron and electron neutrino are moving with great momentum?
Yes. It is like a super energetic variant of regular electron capture.

To use LaTeX formulas just put ## before and after them.
 

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