What Happens When a Mechanism Reaches the Speed of Light?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the theoretical implications of a mechanism reaching the speed of light, particularly focusing on concepts from Einstein's theory of relativity, inertial propulsion, and the nature of mass and time at such speeds. Participants explore various ideas related to acceleration, mass increase, and the potential effects on technology, such as a wireless laptop on the mechanism.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Alexandru describes a mechanism based on inertial propulsion that he believes could reach the speed of light, raising questions about the implications of such a speed on mass and gravity.
  • Some participants question the assumption of constant acceleration, asking for clarification on whether it is constant in an inertial frame or proper acceleration.
  • There is a discussion about the increase in mass as the speed approaches light, with references to Newtonian and relativistic physics, suggesting that achieving light speed is not feasible within the framework of relativity.
  • One participant speculates that if the mechanism were to exceed light speed, it would exist in a state where it is "everywhere at once but nowhere in the universe," raising imaginative scenarios about time travel and the nature of existence.
  • Another participant discusses the concept of time reaching zero at light speed and speculates about the possibility of negative time values, linking this to time travel theories.
  • There are inquiries about the behavior of photons and their interaction with obstacles, as well as the implications of a wireless laptop connecting to networks at light speed.
  • A participant introduces a separate topic regarding centrifugal force and its calculations, seeking assistance in understanding the relationship between centrifugal force and lifting weight.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with some agreeing on the challenges posed by relativity while others propose speculative scenarios. There is no consensus on the feasibility of reaching light speed or the implications of such an event.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of acceleration and mass, as well as unresolved mathematical steps regarding the mechanism's operation and the implications of relativistic physics.

UltraViolet
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Hello!

My name is Alexandru, i am from Romania student at Mechanics University. I am working on a project and i also try to confirm some theory'es. I recently developed build and test a mechanism using the inertial propulsion principle. It is working but keep it in test stage. Now the advantage of this mechanism is that the acceleration is constant so its only a mater of time until this engine would reach speed of light. What would happen when it reaches the speed of light? I thinked of mounting a laptop whit wireless technology incorporated and programed to connect automatically at any free wireless access point. Is it posible that this machine when reach the speed of light to act as light do? This machine let's say will weigh's 10 Kg. and Einstein's theory say when a body reaches speed of light his mass and gravity will get infinite values and some physicists say this machine will implode in itself because of this big forces... My question: how to implode? I mean when gravity, magnetism and the mass of a body becomes infinite... what is this mean? When you travel from A to B in no time... Einstein sayd time is 0 for a body when it reaches the speed of light... am i wrong?

Maybe there is someone who know's: How manny photons exist in this universe?
I will appreciate all comments, discussion, explanations and answers... anything u have in mind.

Thank you very much!
 
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UltraViolet said:
Now the advantage of this mechanism is that the acceleration is constant
Constant according to whom?
so its only a mater of time until this engine would reach speed of light.
How much time?
 
Welcome to PF!

UltraViolet said:
… I recently developed build and test a mechanism using the inertial propulsion principle. It is working but keep it in test stage. Now the advantage of this mechanism is that the acceleration is constant so its only a mater of time until this engine would reach speed of light.

Hello Alexandru! Welcome to PF! :smile:

You say that the acceleration is constant …

but have you included the increase in mass?

I suspect that your mechanism provides a constant rate of increase of momentum.

In Newtonian physics, that's d(mv)/dt = constant,

so v = constant x t.
​
But in relativity, it's:

d(mv)/dt = d(m0v/√(1 - v2/c2)/dt = constant,

so v/√(1 - v2/c2) = constant x t,​

and so v/c must always be less than 1. :smile:
 
Doc Al
Constant according to whom?

The acceleration of the mechanism, engine or ship how should i call it. :)

Q: How much time?
I am sure i can get an acceleration of 100 Km/h every 3 seconds.
 
UltraViolet said:
Doc Al
Constant according to whom?

The acceleration of the mechanism, engine or ship how should i call it. :)
My point was: Are you talking about a constant proper acceleration or a constant acceleration with respect to some inertial frame? One is possible; the other, not.
Q: How much time?
I am sure i can get an acceleration of 100 Km/h every 3 seconds.
Not with respect to an inertial frame. At least not forever.

As tiny-tim explained, it gets harder and harder to continue accelerating something with respect to some inertial frame. The speed will approach the speed of light as a limit as time goes to infinity. It will take forever.
 
With regards to your machine. if it were to reach infinite mass Volume=0 it wouldn't exist in a geometric "place."

If it exceeded light speed and time was 0 it would take no time to travel between geometric points (Place to place).

So the machine would actually be everywhere at once but nowhere in the universe.

I don't think this machine would come back - so don't invest too much money.

Ha Ha - Hope it enlivens the imagination
 
Hi throng! :smile:
throng said:
So the machine would actually be everywhere at once but nowhere in the universe.

ah … you're referring to the Infinite Improbability Drive!
I don't think this machine would come back - so don't invest too much money.

No, it's ok … when the drive is disconnected from the random motion generator (generally at T-time), the wave-function collapses, and the machine can be observed in a particular position.

It can then supply telemetry, or other useful information, back to Earth. :smile:
 
throng! if u exceed speed of light... u mention this, from my little knowledge about Einstein's theory, i remember that Time reaches 0 value at the speed of light... so if u would go further shouldn't time take negative values? i mean this should be a good explanation to time travel... i believe (not convinced) for makin a trip into the past there should be a good physical explanation, and Einstein seem to explain it very well... at the speed of light the ship becomes somethin infinte... i think it will act exactly the same like a photon, light wave... are photons affected by friction? i believe they don't meet obstacles in theyr trajectory .. but light can reflect from objects ... i am curious about installing a wireless laptop on the ship and when it reaches speed of light ... infinite mass, gravity, time reach 0 value ... i think in that fraction of second this ship get's to be present in all time from the time it reaches until the big end :)... gets to be present in all places in universe is present in everything ... maybe.. but that laptop whit wireless technology setup to autoconnect to the first detected wireless access point ... so i mean .. in a moment that ship is present here there and everywhere in the same time and the time that comes ... we should detect manny manny connections .. the same computer gets connected... somethin like cloning .. :))) I am sure this sound very crazy but .. .every byte, bit from this universe we will know about it .. a supernetwork super computer .. there is a market in my town where there is free wireless internet access but also in that market there are buildings and a statue... made of some metal.. that statue contains a very big number of atoms which i think they contain also manny photons... on a PC is very simple to delete and to empty trash .. :))
 
Doc Al

http://www.rexresearch.com/cookip/cookip.htm

"The Conversion of Centrifugal Force Into Linear Force and Motion"

by Robert Cook

lets spin an arm of 30 inch and a weight of 100 grams at the end of the arm, rotateing it whit 100 rpm we get a centrifugal force. Now if we duble the rpm we get some changes.. at 200 rpm the centrifugal force will grow too .. at 3000 rpm the arm may don't resist and broke and that weight if it hits the surface of a scale will show that something heavy is on it... the scale will show there is a weight of 10 kg on it .. until all the energy is dissipated... its simple i think: the harder u throw the higher it goes... so let me get back to the arm that is spinning, when it spins it distributes centrifugal force on 360 degrees but if we somehow redirect 180 degrees in the same direction .. then we get a linear motion... it will be very helpfull for me if you know or someone can help me here how to estimate, i need to make some conversions which i don't know, don't have documentation. How could i calculate the centrifugal force of that spining arm and compare it whit the force needed to lift a weight from the ground? at what RPM that weight of 100 grams will generate enough centrifugal force to equalize the force needed to lift 1 kg from the ground 1 inch.
 
  • #10
tiny-tim, i wanted to answer you yesterday but didnt had time... yes youre right, but when this ship reaches speed of light doesn't apply Einstein's theory of relativity? the principle of my mechanism is inertial propulsion... its like haveing a metall indestructible ball in your front and whit a gun you fire that ball, now that ball starts to move on a direction given by the bullet you shot... now the shooter (you) will travel the same speed behind the ball and from the same distance you shoot again that ball... its easyer to imagine this in space where friction whit atmosphere is less..
 
  • #11
tiny-tim

this is how my mechanism act's...
 
  • #12
tiny-tim
"No, it's ok … when the drive is disconnected from the random motion generator (generally at T-time), the wave-function collapses, and the machine can be observed in a particular position.

It can then supply telemetry, or other useful information, back to Earth."

i strongly believe it needs only to touch only 1 milisecond or much more less time the speed of light because in that moment it becomes infinite mass, gravity and time 0, so it means it will be present in all our future... present in all things the whole solar system will have that ship at the base as a particle that ship.. the ship that reached speed of light .. what i am very curious .. would it be posible for the laptop from that ship to connect wirelessly to a free internet access point? Are photons subatomic particles? i mean do they exist in the composition of an electron or atom nuclei? even so .. there is so much light coming from the sun in day time and light half Earth surface and manny wireless spots.. :)))
 
  • #13
Oh boy.

First, this has nothing to do with photonic computers.

Second, the "Cook Inertial Propulsion Engine" you link to is pure crackpottery. As Cook himself says, it violates conservation of momentum.

Third, I simply don't believe you have a working machine that works on the "inertial propulsion principle", more commonly called a reactionless drive. Much less one that will accelerate at ~1g until nearing the speed of light. I notice that you mention that you are "sure you can get it" - not that you've actually done this. The dustbin of history is filled with crackpots whose perpetual motion machines almost worked.
 
  • #14
This thread has degenerated too far, so I have closed it.
 

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