Gale
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What is energy, really? i know what my teacher says and all, but does someone have a better definition, or a real comprehension?
The discussion centers on the definition and understanding of energy, emphasizing its abstract nature and the conservation laws associated with it. Key points include the conservation of momentum and kinetic energy, as well as Richard Feynman's insights from "Lectures on Physics," which illustrate that energy is a mathematical principle rather than a concrete mechanism. Participants express varying degrees of understanding, with some equating energy's abstractness to concepts like God, highlighting the philosophical implications of defining energy.
PREREQUISITESStudents of physics, educators seeking to clarify energy concepts, and individuals interested in the philosophical aspects of scientific definitions.
Originally posted by Gale17
What is energy, really? i know what my teacher says and all, but does someone have a better definition, or a real comprehension?
Originally posted by Gale17
What is energy, really? i know what my teacher says and all, but does someone have a better definition, or a real comprehension?
Originally posted by HallsofIvy
That's what energy really is! All the various things we need to account for in order to keep SOMETHING constant.
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Originally posted by Gale17
I know all about potential and kinetic energy and the idea about energy perfoms work, those are the basic definitions I've always known. It, like so many other things, seems so abstract to me. Honestly, when ever i consider energy i can't help but think about God, in that both ideas seem so abstract and just means of explaining the unexplainable. To me, one seems no more provable than the other, but for some reason the concept of "energy" is much better accepted by society. So either I'm missing something quite profound, or I'm just utterly crazy to even make such a connection.
Originally posted by pmb
The most precise answer that can be given to "What is Energy" is "We have no knowledge of what energy is."
For a very detailed explanation see
physics.csusm.edu/201/Resources/FeymannEnergyQuote.pdf
Pete
Originally posted by zoobyshoe
How about a definition by way
of describing what energy is not.
Is there a situation void of
energy?
Originally posted by Gale17
zoobyshoe,
thanks you grasp exactly what I mean. although you keep spelling my name wrongbut that's ok love, it's a difficult name to spell.
To me, i can't see how the theory of energy explains anybetter how things happen than the theory of God. Personally, i kinda feel like the only difference is that perhaps our more intellegent scientist have come up with a more believable solution for today's culture to believe, then again... shamans way back when were the most intellegent and the came up with a very intricate theory called Gods... so i don't know. i would say that since so many people believe in energy, that maybe I'm just missing something and it's not as abstract as i thought
Originally posted by zoobyshoe
That is an excellent explanation
of the unchangability of energy.
The problem is that unchangability
is not the essence of energy,
rather it is a quality of energy.
I'm not trying to be difficult
or intentionally pigheaded but
I sense that, despite the best
intentions, people aren't grasp-
ing where Gayle17 is having the
problem. She directly stated that
it was the abstractness of the
explanations she'd heard that
confused her and made her lump
it together with the concept
of God, i.e. unknowable.
I too, keep finding discussions of
all kinds of things at this forum
boiling down to "unknowable"
entities.There must be a "know-
able" perspective on these things
however incomplete?
Originally posted by zoobyshoe
...accounts of the
way things look from a viewpoint
that isn't particularly useful.
If a foreigner asked you "What
mean dis word "Game"? Would you
offer Wittgenstein ?
-Zoob
Originally posted by jeff
Bottom line: Energy is what gravity couples to.
Among the most profound results of GR is a fundamental definition of energy and momentum in terms of what gravity couples to, namely the stress-energy tensor Tμν, defined as the variation of the matter action SM with respect to the metric gμν (holding the coordinates fixed): Tμν(x) = -(2/√(-g))δSM/δgμν(x), with energy defined as E = P0 ≡ ∫d3x√(-g)T00(x) and momentum as Pi ≡ ∫d3x√(-g)T0i(x).
Originally posted by pmb
I disagree - That's mass.
Originally posted by pmb
IMHO Energy is an abstract bookkeeping notion
It's all in Einstein's field equations. I say that it's mass rather than energy, which is mass*c^2, because, to me, mass is something physical whereas energy is a numbers concept - valuable and reflective of what nature does, but not a physical thing which generates a gravitational field.Originally posted by jeff
Why do you think that?
I don't follow your point. What gives you the notion that I might have been confused? I'm well aware that electromagnetic radiation is considered (at least by Einstein) as being matter. According to Einstein an EM field has a mass density.If you were misled by the term "matter" in "matter action" you should know that SM includes radiation in all it's forms as well as matter.
I don't follow you. Please explain what you mean by this.In the absence of gravity, it's only the energy differences among states that's meaningful.
However - and this is implicit in the point I'm making about GR - as soon as you introduce gravity, energy does in fact acquire an absolute meaning because the definition of a systems ground state energy is no longer arbitrary. (This is why I prefer not to view energy fundamentally, as some do, as simply generating time translations and hence dynamics.)
Originally posted by pmb
I just found a beautiful comment in A.P.French's text "Newtonian Mechanics." On page 60 French quotes someone named "H.A. Kramer"
"My own pet notion is that in the world of human thought generally, in in physical science, particularly, the most important and most fruitful concepts are those to which it is impossible to attach a well defined meaning."
No truer words have been spoken Edwin!
French quotes Kramer on pg 367 too regading the inability to be able to define energy.
That's just about right when it comes to energy!
Pmb
Originally posted by Gale17
zoobyshoe,
thanks you grasp exactly what I mean. although you keep spelling my name wrongbut that's ok love, it's a difficult name to spell.
To me, i can't see how the theory of energy explains anybetter how things happen than the theory of God. Personally, i kinda feel like the only difference is that perhaps our more intellegent scientist have come up with a more believable solution for today's culture to believe, then again... shamans way back when were the most intellegent and the came up with a very intricate theory called Gods... so i don't know. i would say that since so many people believe in energy, that maybe I'm just missing something and it's not as abstract as i thought