What is Energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of energy, exploring its definition, nature, and implications in physics. Participants share various perspectives, including historical insights, philosophical reflections, and technical explanations, while addressing both theoretical and conceptual aspects of energy.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the adequacy of traditional definitions of energy, seeking a deeper understanding beyond what is typically taught.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of conservation laws, noting that energy can be understood through invariants and the work done by external forces.
  • Another participant references Richard Feynman's discussion on energy, suggesting that it is an abstract concept that remains poorly defined despite its mathematical utility.
  • Some argue that energy is fundamentally different from other conserved quantities like momentum, raising questions about the nature of energy itself.
  • There is a philosophical angle presented, comparing the abstract nature of energy to concepts like God, suggesting both are means of explaining the unexplainable.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the essence of energy, with one stating that we have no knowledge of what energy truly is, only examples of its manifestations.
  • One participant proposes defining energy by describing situations devoid of it, prompting further inquiry into its nature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach a consensus on the definition or nature of energy, with multiple competing views and ongoing debates about its meaning and implications.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding energy, including the abstractness of the concept and the challenges in defining it clearly. Some arguments depend on specific interpretations of energy and its relationship to other physical quantities.

  • #91
I have been corrected before in this forum so I'm not going try to explain anything due mostly to the fact that all I really know about physics is from the internet, but I just wanted to bring up the second law of thermodynamics. Even though energy may be just "book keeping" it is known that this quantity called energy tends to be go froming being concentrated to being spread out(as in the total disorder of a closed system increases over time) and this tells use that time has a physical existence and is not just made up by humans. So if I know what I'm talking about it would seem that this energy is related to the direction of time(macroscopically) and tends to spread out. I'm sure that someone else here could better explain what I'm saying or they could correct me if I'm wrong. or not
 
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  • #92
Originally posted by bdkeenan00
I have been corrected before in this forum so I'm not going try to explain anything due mostly to the fact that all I really know about physics is from the internet, but I just wanted to bring up the second law of thermodynamics. Even though energy may be just "book keeping" it is known that this quantity called energy tends to be go froming being concentrated to being spread out(as in the total disorder of a closed system increases over time) and this tells use that time has a physical existence and is not just made up by humans. So if I know what I'm talking about it would seem that this energy is related to the direction of time(macroscopically) and tends to spread out. I'm sure that someone else here could better explain what I'm saying or they could correct me if I'm wrong. or not

Its not energy that is doing that. The energy of the Earth going around the Sun is not being "spread out" at all. The notion you're really thinking of is entropy.

Pmb
 
  • #93
Thank you for your reply. When I said the entropy increases I meant the entropy of the entire universe. So when you said that our solar system has a low entropy doesn't that mean that somewhere else there is even more disorder to cancel out those places where there is high order? If am wrong please correct me for my knowledge of Physics is limited. Thank you very much
 
  • #94
Umm... I don't really understand the question, but I'll harzard an response anyways. :wink:

If we have a local decrease in entropy (like say, in a fridge), then by the 1st law of thermodynamics, you must have an increase in entropy somewhere else. (like in the air at the back of the fridge) Furthermore, by the second law of thermodynamics, that increase in entropy must be larger that the first decrease in entropy.

But that applies to change in entropy.
Saying the solar system has low entropy means that by some scale, the solar system has less than "normal". In the abscence of some comparision, I am assume that something like "low relative to the average entropy of the universe" is meant. In this case, it's kinda obvious - if something exists that is less than the mean, then somewhere there must be stuff that are higher.
 
  • #95
Thank you "FZ+" that is exactly what I wanted to hear. Sorry that my question was vague.
 

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