What is G-Force Before Engines Turn On?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the interpretation of g-force values before rocket engines are activated, specifically whether it should be considered 1 g-force or 0 g-force. The scope includes conceptual clarification and technical reasoning regarding acceleration measurements in different frames of reference.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that it should be 1 g-force because astronauts experience 1 g-force of acceleration on Earth's surface, even before the engines turn on.
  • Others contend that it should be 0 g-force, as the rocket's acceleration is 0 m/s² while on the ground, which corresponds to 0 g-force.
  • One participant suggests that the interpretation may depend on the choice of zero, questioning the convention used in defining g-force.
  • Another participant introduces the distinction between "proper acceleration" and "coordinate acceleration," suggesting that g-force likely refers to proper acceleration.
  • A later reply acknowledges the importance of stage changes, indicating that the context of the rocket's operation affects the interpretation of g-force.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express competing views on whether the g-force should be considered 1 or 0 before engine activation, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the definitions of acceleration being used, and the discussion does not resolve the ambiguity surrounding the interpretation of g-force in this context.

DocZaius
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I was looking at this graph and wondering what the value of the graph would be before the engines turn on. Should it be 1 g-force or 0 g-force? (the "force" in g-force being a misnomer as it is a measure of acceleration, not force) Below are arguments for each:

Why it should be 1 g-force: We experience 1 g-force of acceleration on Earth's surface. The astronauts would also experience 1 g-force before the engines turn on.

Why it should be 0 g-force: The acceleration of the rocket (in m/s^2) is clearly 0 while the rocket is still on the ground. 0 m/s^2 corresponds to 0 g-force.

Which is the correct interpretation? Or is this just a problem of choosing your zero? In that case what is the convention?
 
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DocZaius said:
Why it should be 1 g-force: We experience 1 g-force of acceleration on Earth's surface. The astronauts would also experience 1 g-force before the engines turn on.
That's "proper acceleration":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proper_acceleration

DocZaius said:
Why it should be 0 g-force: The acceleration of the rocket (in m/s^2) is clearly 0 while the rocket is still on the ground. 0 m/s^2 corresponds to 0 g-force..
That's "coordiante acceleration" in the rest frame of the surface:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acceleration

DocZaius said:
Which is the correct interpretation?
If it says "G-force" it probably means proper acceleration. Also because it drops to 0 during stage changes. Coordinate acceleration would drop to -1g.
 
Ah I should have paid attention to the stage changes! No ambiguity there. Thank you!
 
DocZaius said:
Ah I should have paid attention to the stage changes!

And also the figure caption:

8. With the cut-off of the S-IVB's first burn, the vehicle is in orbit with zero acceleration.
 

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