What is Quotient? Understanding Algebraic Structures

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of quotients in algebraic structures, particularly focusing on quotient spaces, groups, rings, fields, and vector spaces. Participants explore definitions, visualizations, and applications of these concepts, including their relevance in quantum mechanics and group theory.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Leon expresses difficulty in visualizing quotient spaces and groups, questioning the rationale behind their definitions and the benefits of working with them.
  • Daniel provides a physical example from quantum mechanics, explaining how the mapping of vectors in a Hilbert space to physical quantum states is not injective, necessitating the use of equivalence relations to achieve a bijective mapping.
  • Leon inquires about the significance of normal subgroups in physics.
  • Another participant asserts that all kernels are normal and emphasizes the importance of normal subgroups in the context of group symmetries and physical theories, mentioning the relevance of the group SU(3)xSU(2)xSU(1) and its representations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present various viewpoints on the definitions and applications of quotient structures, with no consensus reached on the visualization of these concepts or their implications in physics.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the understanding of algebraic structures and their applications in physics, which may not be explicitly stated. The relationship between group theory and physical theories remains complex and is not fully resolved.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in algebraic structures, quantum mechanics, and group theory may find the discussion relevant to their studies or research.

leon1127
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As one can see, the definition of quotient space, group, ring, field, vector space are very similar. It is similarly defined as an algebraic structure with a ~ on it. I am really having trouble vistualise what a quotient space and group are. My professor told me that we can work more easily with a quotient space since they are divided into mutual disjoint set. Is there another reason why it is defined in such a way?

Thx

Leon
 
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Lemme give you a physical example. In Quantum Mechanics one uses a (complex, separable) Hilbert space to describe physical (pure) quantum states. A Hilbert space is made up of vectors. There are physical reasons for which the mapping

{vectors}------>{physical (pure) states} is not one-to-one, i.e. injective. Worse, it maps an uncountable infinite set of vectors to one physical state.

So there's too much information in the Hilbert space (too many vectors) that we don't need. The application mentioned above is onto (surjective). To make it bijective, one factorizes the Hilbert space by this equivalence relation:

{vector A} ~ {vector B} iff the physical (pure) quantum state mapped from A is identical to the physical (pure) quantum state mapped from B.

In this way the bijective mapping is accomplished between the equivalence classes of vectors from the Hilbert space and the set of all physical (pure) quantum states.

The space H|~ is called "the projective Hilbert space" and provides the mathematical description of physical (pure) quantum states in Quantum Mechanics.

Daniel.

NOTE: The words in paranthesis: pure and separable are irrelevant for the point I'm trying to make. Just as the other words in paranthesis they're written for completeness.
 
What about normal subgroup? How does it important in physics?
 
All kernels are normal. Whenever groups are involved in anything, and maps of groups, you need to know about normal subgroups.

Groups control the symmetries of things. Some physical theories are described as the things that are left invariant by some group operation (one can characterize Galilean/Newtonian and relativistic mechanics this way). The group SU(3)xSU(2)xSU(1) is important in physics - representations of SU(2) correspond to spin states, for instance. A represnetation is a group hom into a vector space, so the kernel, being a normal subgroup is important...
 

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