What is the basis for Toyota's fluorine battery claims?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the claims made by Toyota regarding the energy density of fluorine batteries compared to lithium-ion batteries. Participants explore the scientific basis for these claims, the mechanisms involved in fluorine batteries, and the implications of energy density measurements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the basis of Toyota's claim that fluorine batteries can achieve 7x the energy density of lithium-ion batteries, referencing reduction potentials from a textbook.
  • Another participant clarifies that the "7x energy density" refers to the stored electrical energy relative to weight, suggesting significant implications for battery weight and range.
  • A participant seeks to understand the mechanism behind achieving such energy density, specifically questioning whether it is due to fluorine being gaseous at room temperature.
  • Another participant explains that fluorine batteries do not use fluorine for redox reactions but rather involve the movement of fluorine between anode and cathode, emphasizing that energy density is influenced by the mass of all components involved in battery operation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the mechanisms behind the energy density claims and the role of fluorine in the battery's operation. There is no consensus on how Toyota's claims are substantiated or the implications of energy density measurements.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that energy density calculations must consider the mass of all substances involved in battery operation, indicating potential limitations in understanding the claims without further details on the battery's design and materials.

theycallmevirgo
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TL;DR
Why is Toyota researching Fluorine batteries when LiIon cell potentials are higher?
Google top result says Toyota is researching Fluorine batteries that they claim will have 7x energy density of LiIon. However my textbook table of reduction potential gives lithium as higher than fluorine. Any idea what they base their claims on?

Thanks

Joe
 
Chemistry news on Phys.org
I got that far. My point is how do they achieve this? Simply by virtue of fluorine being gaseous at room temp?
 
Fluorine batteries don't use fluorine for redox, it is just shuffled between anode and cathode.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoride_battery

Besides, energy density of a battery doesn't depend just on the redox reaction involved, it also needs to take into account mass of every other substance required for a correct operation.
 

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