What is the best structure for po4 -3

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the structure of the phosphate ion (PO43-), specifically focusing on the Lewis structure and the nature of the bonds within it. Participants explore different models and interpretations of bond types, including the presence of double bonds versus single bonds.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the phosphate ion should have one double bond and three single bonds, suggesting this configuration stabilizes the central phosphorus atom.
  • Others argue that all bonds in the phosphate ion are single bonds, with negative charges being stabilized by solvent or counter ions.
  • A participant mentions that the Lewis structure is often depicted with one double bond (≡P=O) and three single bonds (P-O-), indicating a common representation in literature.
  • There is a mention of quantum mechanics and Pauling's theory of delocalized electrons, which may influence the understanding of the phosphate ion's structure.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about quantum mechanics and seeks clarification on the most stable Lewis structure and the possibility of a charge on the central atom.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the structure of the phosphate ion, with multiple competing views regarding the nature of the bonds and the stability of the ion in different contexts.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions made about bond types and the stability of the phosphate ion in various phases (e.g., gas phase versus solvated conditions). The discussion reflects differing interpretations found in various textbooks.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and researchers interested in chemical bonding, Lewis structures, and the stability of ions in different environments.

rashida564
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i think it should have double bond with o
 
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rashida564 said:
i think it should have double bond with o
What in particular makes you think that?
 
because it is better to have the central atom to be natural so i should make one double bond and the other is single bond
 
The only stable phosphorus oxides are [itex]P_4 O_6[/itex] and [itex]P_4 O_{10}[/itex]. [itex]P_4 O_3[/itex] doesn't exist.
 
i don't say p4o3 i mean Phosphate and i want to know that is the stable lewis structure becouse some book make all the bond are single and some book make one double bond and the other is single bond
 
rashida564 said:
i don't say p4o3 i mean Phosphate and i want to know that is the stable lewis structure becouse some book make all the bond are single and some book make one double bond and the other is single bond

O
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Oh, so you mean [itex]PO_{4}^{3-}[/itex]. The Lewis structure is O=P-O with over-octet structure for P. If quantum mechanics is brought into picture, one can follow Pauling's theory of delocalized electrons, mesomeric/resonant structures.
 
All bonds are single bonds. The negative charges are stabilized by either the solvent or counter ions. In gas phase, phosphate ions aren't stable.
 
All bonds are single bonds. The negative charges are stabilized by either the solvent or counter ions. In gas phase, phosphate ions aren't stable.
 
This is nearly always pictured as one double bond ≡P=O with three single bonds P-O-, you won't go very far without meeting it.
 
  • #10
i don't know quantum mechanics so can anyone help me what is the most stable lewis and can central atom have charge
 

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