What is the concept of dx in calculus?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter spaghetti3451
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Calculus Infinitesimal
Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the concept of "dx" in calculus, where participants debate its meaning and implications in both mathematics and physics. While some argue that "dx" represents an infinitesimal change in x, others contend that it lacks meaning in standard analysis and should be viewed merely as notation. The conversation highlights the distinction between mathematical rigor and physical intuition, with references to nonstandard analysis and differential geometry as frameworks that provide meaning to "dx." Key texts mentioned include "Calculus on Manifolds" by Spivak, which explores these concepts further.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of calculus concepts, specifically derivatives and integrals.
  • Familiarity with nonstandard analysis and its approach to infinitesimals.
  • Knowledge of differential geometry, particularly differential forms.
  • Basic physics principles involving work and force, such as W = ∫ F·dx.
NEXT STEPS
  • Study "Calculus on Manifolds" by Spivak to explore the mathematical meaning of "dx."
  • Research nonstandard analysis to understand how infinitesimals are rigorously defined.
  • Learn about differential forms in differential geometry and their applications in calculus.
  • Examine the relationship between differentiability and continuity in calculus, referencing authoritative sources.
USEFUL FOR

Mathematicians, physics students, educators teaching calculus, and anyone interested in the foundational concepts of calculus and their interpretations in both mathematics and physics.

  • #31
Hurkyl said:
Infinitessimal has a precise definition -- usually it's something like:

x is infinitessimal if the size of x is smaller than 1/n for every positive integer n

The description you have doesn't really fit with how mathematicians use the term "infinitessimal". Among other things, in the real number system, there is only one infintiessimal, and it's called "zero".

Other number systems have infinitesimal objects that really aren't all that mysterious. Other algebraic structures capture the notion too -- such as the notions of "differential form" and "tangent vector".

In your definition, I think you want to include a condition that x is greater than zero. Otherwise -1 would be considered infinitesimal. The way the term is normally used, 0 is also not considered infinitesimal. Non-standard analysis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-standard_analysis has infinitesimals that fit this definition. There is a very nice freshman calc book available online that does calculus using infinitesimals: http://www.math.wisc.edu/~keisler/calc.html
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
bcrowell said:
In your definition, I think you want to include a condition that x is greater than zero.
"Size". In the case of elements an ordered field, that would mean absolute value. I suppose I should have been more explicit, though.

The way the term is normally used, 0 is also not considered infinitesimal.
Huh. I've only seen the opposite convention. e.g. Keisler's book:
Then the only real number that is infinitesimal is zero.​
It's good to know there are people who use the opposite convention.




At least, I only remember seeing the opposite convention. I can easily imagine having seen the other, but chalked it up to the tendency for people to (IMO) gratuitously exclude degenerate cases from definitions, and so didn't take it all that seriously.
 
  • #33
Hurkyl said:
Huh. I've only seen the opposite convention. e.g. Keisler's book:
Then the only real number that is infinitesimal is zero.​
It's good to know there are people who use the opposite convention.

Or maybe I was just wrong :-)
 
  • #34
Whoopes I made a typo

I previously said 0 > dx < 1

but i meant

0 < dx < 1

I blame it on the cat tibels
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
6K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
3K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K