What is the definition of Uphill?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of "uphill" in relation to water flow towards the equator, examining definitions of uphill and the physical principles influencing water movement. Participants explore theoretical and conceptual aspects, including gravitational potential, centrifugal force, and the Coriolis effect.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that water flows towards the equator because it is "uphill" due to the Earth's bulge at the equator, which is farther from the center of the Earth.
  • Another participant counters that water does not necessarily flow towards the equator, citing examples like the Nile River flowing away from it.
  • Some participants discuss the role of gravitational potential energy, stating that water flows from higher to lower potential energy, which they argue generally leads towards the equator for many rivers.
  • There is mention of the Coriolis effect influencing water currents, with some arguing that it creates a swirling motion rather than a direct flow towards the equator.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about the definitions of "uphill" and "up," suggesting that these terms need to be clarified in the context of the discussion.
  • Another participant reflects on hypothetical scenarios regarding Earth's axial tilt and its potential effects on water flow and climate, indicating a broader exploration of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether water flows towards the equator or the implications of defining "uphill." Multiple competing views are presented, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express differing interpretations of gravitational potential and the effects of Earth's shape and rotation on water movement. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of "uphill" and "up," as well as the influence of various physical forces on water flow.

  • #31
Averagesupernova said:
And technically they are. It's not a requirement that they make it all the way to the south pole.
I've looked. Oceans are out, I already told you that. Just delete this thread, I'm tired of it. It's not that I don't get what you are saying, you don't seem to get what I'm saying. Maybe I'm just stupid in that I am unable to communicate it to you (all of you). But I'm tired of it.
You will have an epiphany at 3am and it will all be clear and you will be able to explain it all to us. :smile:

Go eat some oyster crackers. :biggrin:
 
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  • #32
cyrusabdollahi said:
I don't see what's so funny about that book, I just finished reading all 500 pages of it, and you would learn a lot from it.
I didn't expect you to 'get it' cyrus. So in hindsight I shouldn't have posted. Couldn't help myself. From my point of view though...
 
  • #33
Evo said:
You will have an epiphany at 3am and it will all be clear and you will be able to explain it all to us. :smile:
Go eat some oyster crackers. :biggrin:

I ate them up Evo.
 
  • #34
Averagesupernova said:
I ate them up Evo.
Well, that explains it, make more. :biggrin:
 
  • #35
No, right now I'm thinking Miller Lite.
 
  • #36
Did I tell you about the time I was five and I was certain toliets operated on electricity? :frown: I mean, how else could they flush? :redface:
 
  • #37
:eek: You mean they DON'T? :eek:
The above was intended as sarcasm.
 
  • #40
I just wanted you to flush your misconceptions of rivers flowing north down the....err umm...toilet :smile:
 
  • #41
I remember a list of questions someone (maybe Gokul) posted once. One of the questions was about the Mississippi river flowing up hill and there being a physics reason for doing so. I don't know what the answer was though.

As far as where water flows to I've figured out that any spilled water flows to the spot where I am about to step if I'm wearing socks.
 
  • #42
If I may...

Perhaps what the OP is asking is...

Why would ANY rivers flow towards the equator, since, as we know from the shape of the Earth, the equator is higher than the poles. Any rivers that flow toward the equator will effectively be climbing uphill, right?

Here is the answer:

Consider what sea level is in these various parts of the Earth. Sea level is the lowest possible point to which water will flow. If sea level near the equator really WERE higher than at the poles - well, logically, the equatorial seas would be bone dry beaches wouldn't they?

But the fact that the Earth is an oblate spheroid also means that its gravitational pull is not distributed evenly. The net effect is that every point on the Earth's surface experiences approximately the same amount of pull. This means that the equator is NOT "downhill" from the North Pole regardless of their relative distances from the geometric centre of the Earth.

All water in the oceans (including the water that the Mississippi flows into) is at the lowest point it can go. The Mississippi flows downhill towards it.
 
  • #43
DaveC426913 said:
But the fact that the Earth is an oblate spheroid also means that its gravitational pull is not distributed evenly. The net effect is that every point on the Earth's surface experiences approximately the same amount of pull.
I can't follow this. The second sentence seems to be presented as explaining a consequence of the first, but in fact, seems to contradict it. If the pull is not evenly distributed than why would you say every point experiences the same amount of pull?
 
  • #44
zoobyshoe said:
I can't follow this. The second sentence seems to be presented as explaining a consequence of the first, but in fact, seems to contradict it. If the pull is not evenly distributed than why would you say every point experiences the same amount of pull?
The facts that 1] the pull is not distributed spherically AND 2] that the Earth is not spherical, cancel each other out, such that any point on the Earth (at sea level) experiences the same amount of pull, and it is perpendicular to the surface.

Forget rivers for a second. Oceans are simpler. If the Caribbean Sea really *were* uphill from the Arctic ocean, the water would flow out of the Caribbean into the Arctic, leaving the Caribbean bone-dry.

The fact is, sea level EVERYWHERE on the Earth is the lowest point at which water can flow to.

Have a look at the attached pic.
 
Last edited:
  • #45
Wow, I'm finding this really hard to explain succinctly.

The gravitational pull at any point on the surface of a perfect sphere happens to be exactly in the direction of the centre of the sphere. The line on a plumb bob will point at the physical centre of the sphere.

No so with other objects.

The gravitational pull on the surface of an oblate spheroid is NOT always inline with the physical centre of the object. A plumb bob, if followed through the object will point to different places, depending on where you are standing.

HOWEVER, the plumb bob line will ALWAYS be tangential to the surface where you are standing. That means every point on an oblate spheroid is experienced as horizontal - no sloping effect.
 
  • #46
:wink: Good luck Dave!
 

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