What is the error in this proof?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around identifying the error in a mathematical proof that incorrectly concludes that 1 equals -1 through the manipulation of square roots involving negative numbers. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and conceptual clarification regarding the properties of square roots, particularly in the context of positive and negative values.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants point out that the error in the proof arises from incorrectly applying the properties of square roots that are valid for positive numbers to negative numbers.
  • One participant emphasizes that the equality \(\sqrt{ab} = \sqrt{a}\sqrt{b}\) holds only when \(a\) and \(b\) are both non-negative.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the statement that \(\sqrt{ab} = \sqrt{a}\sqrt{b}\) is restricted to non-negative values, seeking a deeper explanation of the underlying logic.
  • A later reply provides a reasoning based on the definition of square roots, stating that the square root of a number is defined as the positive number whose square equals that number, which leads to the conclusion that the last step in the proof is invalid if the square roots are not positive.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the application of square root properties to negative numbers is problematic, but there is ongoing debate about the specifics of these properties and the definitions involved. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications of these mathematical rules.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the application of square root properties, particularly the dependence on the positivity of the numbers involved. There are unresolved questions about the definitions and proofs that support these properties.

topu87
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please tell me where is the error here-
1 = \sqrt{}1 = \sqrt{}(-1) (-1) =\sqrt{}-1 \sqrt{}-1 = i^{}2 = -1

so we get 1= -1. what is the error here?
 
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sorry look at this form. This is more understandable than the previous one
1= \sqrt{1} = \sqrt{(-1) (-1)}= \sqrt{-1}\sqrt{-1} = i i = i^{2} = -1
 
The error lies in the assumption that the square root operation when performed on negative (or in general complex) numbers follow exactly those laws valid when you restrict square rooting to positive numbers.

It just doesn't.
 
Did you want to say that we can't apply the laws for square-rooting of positive no. to this situation? Plz explain details. What is the exact logic to give in this situation?
 
mdnazmulh said:
Did you want to say that we can't apply the laws for square-rooting of positive no. to this situation? Plz explain details. What is the exact logic to give in this situation?

\sqrt{ab}=\sqrt a\sqrt b is only valid for a,b\ge0.
 
Again it raises another question.
On the basis of which statement you can say the following statement is valid-

CRGreathouse said:
\sqrt{ab}=\sqrt a\sqrt b is only valid for a,b\ge0.
 
It's valid for a,b>=0 because there is a valid proof of it. this proof doesn't work if a or b can be negative. this proof uses as a definition of the square root that x is the square root of y, if x is positive and x*x = y. in that case there can be only one such number

  1. :(\sqrt{ab})^2 = ab by the definition of square root
  2. : (\sqrt{a})^2 = a by the definition of square root
  3. : (\sqrt{b})^2 = b by the definition of square root
  4. : (\sqrt{ab})^2 = (\sqrt{a})^2 (\sqrt{b})^2
  5. : (\sqrt{ab})^2 = (\sqrt{a}\sqrt{b})^2 associativity
  6. : \sqrt{ab} = \sqrt{a}\sqrt{b} definition of square root

the last step only works if \sqrt{ab} and \sqrt{a}\sqrt{b} must be positive. if this was not the case \sqrt{ab} = -\sqrt{a}\sqrt{b} could also be possible
 

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