What is the Explanation for d=1/3 in the Thermodynamic Relationship?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamic relationship expressed as S=A[UVN]^d, where S is entropy, A is a constant, and d is a real number. The original poster seeks to understand why d=1/3 is the only permissible value according to thermodynamic postulates.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relevance of thermodynamic postulates to the problem, questioning how they relate to the value of d. Some participants suggest examining the units of the equation, while others emphasize the importance of entropy being an extensive property.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with various participants contributing thoughts on the implications of the postulates and the relationship between the variables. Some guidance has been offered regarding the need for matching units and the significance of extensivity in entropy, but no consensus has been reached on the reasoning behind the value of d.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the challenge of matching units due to the constant A and discuss the implications of the extensive nature of the properties involved. There is an acknowledgment of the original poster's struggle to derive insights from the postulates provided.

mrjohns
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Homework Statement



Consider relationship for a thermodynamic system:

S=A[UVN]^d , where A is a constant and d a real number.

I need to explain why d=1/3 is the only allowed value consistent with the postulates of thermodynamics.

The Attempt at a Solution



I'm having a hard time determining why this is the case from the postulates.
 
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You should start by writing down the postulates you think could be relevant.
 
mrjohns said:

Homework Statement



Consider relationship for a thermodynamic system:

S=A[UVN]^d , where A is a constant and d a real number.

I need to explain why d=1/3 is the only allowed value consistent with the postulates of thermodynamics.

The Attempt at a Solution



I'm having a hard time determining why this is the case from the postulates.

Please check your PMs. You must write out the relevant equations and show your attempt at solving this problem.
 
This is a problem involving units. The units on both sides of the equation must match.
 
I don't have an attempt because I'm completely stumped.

The units on the left hand side are J/K, and on the right they are J^(1/3) m - which don't match.

I can't see anything in the postulates that helps either:

P1 - There exist equilibrium states characterised completely by U, V, N.
P2 - There exists a function of the macroscopic variables, the entropy, which is maximised when a constraint is removed
P3 - Entropy is additive over subsystems, and is a continuous and differentiable and increasing function of the total internal energy U
 
Considering you don't know the units of A, it's pointless to match units between sides.

Can you give an example of what the third postulate means?
 
While you can't match units directly because of the A term you can still make progress by requiring that the entropy be extensive.
 
mrjohns said:
P3 - Entropy is additive over subsystems

This is important.
 
U, V, N, and S are all extensive properties. So, if you double U, V, and N, what has to happen to S?
 
  • #10
I know that for a constant:

S(kN,KV,KU)=kS(N,V,U)

But I'm not sure how that restricts the power to a third.
 
  • #11
Substitute kU, kV, and kN, and kS into your thermodynamic relationship, and see what you get.
 

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