What is the force on a magnetic dipole in a coil at r = 0?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the forces acting on a magnetic dipole placed in a coil at a position very close to the center (r = 0). Participants explore the relationship between magnetic fields and forces, particularly focusing on the behavior of the magnetic field (B) near this point and its implications for the dipole's force.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the linear increase of the magnetic field near r = 0 and question the implications of the dipole's orientation on the force experienced. There is also exploration of the relationship between potential energy and force, with suggestions to consider the gradient of potential energy to find the force.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants sharing insights and confirming each other's reasoning. Some guidance has been offered regarding the use of potential energy to derive the force, and there is acknowledgment of previous suggestions made by others.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of the dipole's orientation and the nature of the magnetic field in determining the force, as well as the potential confusion regarding the role of energy in this context.

unscientific
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Homework Statement


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Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution



I found dB/dr to be constant near r = 0, so it's a straight line, implying B increases linearly with r near r = 0.

For the second part, I assume the setup is as such, if not placing the dipole with its axis parallel to the coil would make B = 0, and hence no force at all..Not sure what energy has to do in this case.

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unscientific said:
Not sure what energy has to do in this case.
There is a relationship between potential energy and force.
 
unscientific said:
I found dB/dr to be constant near r = 0, so it's a straight line, implying B increases linearly with r near r = 0.
Sounds good.

For the second part, I assume the setup is as such, if not placing the dipole with its axis parallel to the coil would make B = 0, and hence no force at all..Not sure what energy has to do in this case.

[Edited to correct a misstatement] Although there is only an r-component of field on the axis of the Maxwell loops (r-axis), off the axis there will be a radially inward field (perpendicular to the r-axis and toward the r-axis). A dipole in the form of a small current loop would experience a force due to this radially inward field.

But, it's easier to find the force by using the idea that force is the negative gradient of potential energy: F = -∇E. See if you can use this to find the force. [I see MisterX posted this suggestion before me. Sorry.]
 
Last edited:
TSny said:
Sounds good.



[Edited to correct a misstatement] Although there is only an r-component of field on the axis of the Maxwell loops (r-axis), off the axis there will be a radially inward field (perpendicular to the r-axis and toward the r-axis). A dipole in the form of a small current loop would experience a force due to this radially inward field.

But, it's easier to find the force by using the idea that force is the negative gradient of potential energy: F = -∇E. See if you can use this to find the force. [I see MisterX posted this suggestion before me. Sorry.]

Then, wouldn't the force simply be F = - ∂U/∂r = m ∂Bext/∂r at r = 0?

This is simply the earlier part of the question of finding ∂B/∂r at r = 0.
 
unscientific said:
Then, wouldn't the force simply be F = - ∂U/∂r = m ∂Bext/∂r at r = 0?

This is simply the earlier part of the question of finding ∂B/∂r at r = 0.

Yes, that's right.
 

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