What is the Limit of an Exponential Function?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around evaluating the limit of an exponential function involving the ratio of cosine functions as \( x \) approaches zero. Participants explore various methods to solve this limit, including series expansions and the potential application of L'Hospital's Rule.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose using Maclaurin series expansions to evaluate the limit, leading to the expression \( \lim_{x\to 0}\left(\frac{\cos(x)}{\cos(2x)}\right)^{1/x^2} \).
  • Others discuss the manipulation of series expansions, questioning the steps taken to arrive at the final expression \( 1+\frac{3}{2} x^2 + \ldots \).
  • A participant suggests that the limit can be transformed into a form suitable for L'Hospital's Rule, identifying it as a \( 1^{\infty} \) indeterminate form.
  • Some participants express confusion about the reasoning behind certain steps in the series expansion and the application of limits.
  • There is a contention regarding the necessity of using L'Hospital's Rule, with some arguing for its simplicity while others emphasize the original request to avoid it.
  • One participant expresses concern about editing the original post after responses have been made, highlighting the importance of maintaining the context of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best method to solve the limit. There are competing views on the use of series expansions versus L'Hospital's Rule, and some express uncertainty about specific steps in the reasoning.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the steps involving series expansions may lack rigor, and there are unresolved questions about the manipulation of terms and the application of limits. The discussion reflects various assumptions and interpretations of the mathematical expressions involved.

goody1
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
Hello everyone, can anybody solve this limit? This is really tough one for me, thank you in advance.
View attachment 9653
 

Attachments

  • limita.png
    limita.png
    2.9 KB · Views: 147
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
goody said:
Hello everyone, can anybody solve this limit without using L'Hospital's rule? This is really tough one for me, I know I'd use that x = e^lnx.

The series expansion of $\cos x = 1 - \frac 12x^2 + \ldots$.
And the expansion of $\frac 1{1-x} = 1+x+x^2+\ldots$

So:
$$\frac{\cos(x)}{\cos(2x)}
= \frac{1-\frac 12 x^2 + \ldots}{1-\frac 12 (2x)^2 + \ldots}
=\Big(1-\frac 12 x^2 + \ldots\Big)\Big(1+\frac 12 (2x)^2 - \ldots\Big)
=1+\frac 32 x^2+\ldots
$$

Consequently:
$$\lim_{x\to 0}\left(\frac{\cos(x)}{\cos(2x)}\right)^{1/x^2}
=\lim_{x\to 0}(1+\frac 32 x^2+\ldots)^{1/x^2}
=\lim_{n\to\infty} (1+\frac {3/2}n)^n
=e^{3/2}
$$

To be fair, that last step where I leave out the dots is not entirely rigorous, but we do get the result.
 
I understand that you used Maclaurin series expansion and then the first step behind first equal sign but may I ask how did we get another steps?
View attachment 9658
 

Attachments

  • limita2.png
    limita2.png
    3 KB · Views: 133
goody said:
I understand that you used Maclaurin series expansion and then the first step behind first equal sign but may I ask how did we get another steps?

It's like this:
$$\Big(1-\frac 12 x^2 + \ldots\Big)\Big(1+\frac 12 (2x)^2 - \ldots\Big)\\
=1\cdot 1 -\frac 12 x^2 \cdot 1+1\cdot \frac 12 (2x)^2 - \frac 12 x^2 \cdot \frac 12 (2x)^2 + \text{ other terms with }x^4\text{ and higher order}\\
=1 + \Big(-\frac 12 + \frac 12(2^2)\Big)x^2 + \ldots \\
= 1+\frac 32 x^2 + \ldots
$$
 
Oh of course, I got it. And in the last step you just divided 3/2 by n because n is infinite number of terms behind dots or why is it like that? Why did you not divide 1 by n as well?
 
goody said:
Oh of course, I got it. And in the last step you just divided 3/2 by n because n is infinite number of terms behind dots or why is it like that? Why did you not divide 1 by n as well?

I substituted $n=\frac 1{x^2}$, which also means that $x^2=\frac 1 n$.
So we get $\Big(1 + \frac 32 x^2\Big)^{1/x^2} = \Big(1 + \frac 32 \cdot \frac 1n\Big)^n$.

Now consider the following known limit, which is one of the equivalent definitions of the exponential function:
$$\lim_{n\to\infty} \Big(1+\frac yn\Big)^n = e^y$$

Substitute $y=\frac 32$...
 
Thank you very much for your time and explanation. You really helped me a lot!
 
Re: Help with limit

goody said:
Hello everyone, can anybody solve this limit? This is really tough one for me, thank you in advance.

This is a $\displaystyle 1^{\infty} $ indeterminate form. It can be transformed into a form that can use L'Hospital's Rule by

$\displaystyle \begin{align*}
\lim_{x \to 0} \left\{ \left[ \frac{\cos{\left( x \right) }}{\cos{ \left( 2\,x \right) }} \right] ^{1/x^2} \right\} &= \lim_{x \to 0} \left( \mathrm{e}^{\ln{ \left\{ \left[ \frac{\cos{(x)}}{\cos{(2\,x)}} \right] ^{1/x^2} \right\} }}
\right) \\
&= \lim_{x \to 0} \left\{ \mathrm{e}^{\frac{1}{x^2}\ln{ \left[ \frac{\cos{(x)}}{\cos{(2\,x)}} \right] }} \right\} \\
&= \lim_{x \to 0} \left\{ \mathrm{e}^{\frac{\ln{\left[ \frac{\cos{(x)}}{\cos{(2\,x)}} \right]}}{x^2}} \right\} \\
&= \mathrm{e}^{ \lim_{x \to 0} \left\{\frac{\ln{\left[ \frac{\cos{(x)}}{\cos{(2\,x)}} \right] }}{x^2} \right\} }\end{align*} $

This limit is now a $\displaystyle \frac{0}{0} $ indeterminate form, so you can apply L'Hospital's Rule.
 
Klaas van Aarsen said:
It's like this:
$$\Big(1-\frac 12 x^2 + \ldots\Big)\Big(1+\frac 12 (2x)^2 - \ldots\Big)\\
=1\cdot 1 -\frac 12 x^2 \cdot 1+1\cdot \frac 12 (2x)^2 - \frac 12 x^2 \cdot \frac 12 (2x)^2 + \text{ other terms with }x^4\text{ and higher order}\\
=1 + \Big(-\frac 12 + \frac 12(2^2)\Big)x^2 + \ldots \\
= 1+\frac 32 x^2 + \ldots
$$

Still, now I'm wondering how we got this View attachment 9676.
Is it correct? Because I think it should be like that View attachment 9677 or did I miss something?
 

Attachments

  • 1.png
    1.png
    1.5 KB · Views: 146
  • 2.png
    2.png
    835 bytes · Views: 138
  • #10
goody said:
Still, now I'm wondering how we got this .
Is it correct? Because I think it should be like that or did I miss something?

It is correct and you are correct too.

Note that $\frac 1{1-x}=1+x+x^2+x^3+\ldots$.
Written with $y$ we have: $(1-y)^{-1}=1+y+y^2+y^3+\ldots$

Now substitute $y=\frac 12 (2x)^2 - \ldots$ and we get:

\begin{aligned}\Big(1-\frac 12 (2x)^2 + \ldots\Big)^{-1}
&=1+\Big(\frac 12 (2x)^2 - \ldots\Big) + \Big(\frac 12 (2x)^2 - \ldots\Big)^2 + \Big(\frac 12 (2x)^2 - \ldots\Big)^3 + \ldots \\
&=1 + \frac 12 (2x)^2 - \text{ higher order terms starting from }x^4
\end{aligned}
 
  • #11
So much unneccessary analysis when L'Hospital's Rule is so concise...
 
  • #12
Prove It said:
So much unneccessary analysis when L'Hospital's Rule is so concise...

The original OP asked explicitly to do it without L'Hospital's Rule.
 
  • #13
Klaas van Aarsen said:
The original OP asked explicitly to do it without L'Hospital's Rule.

Oh really?

View attachment 9681
 

Attachments

  • ohreally.jpg
    ohreally.jpg
    30.7 KB · Views: 116
  • #14
Prove It said:
Oh really?

We can see the original OP in my quote in post #2:

View attachment 9683

Also note in your screenshot the: Last edited by goody; April 6th, 2020 at 3:09.

Ah well, I was kind of happy to see that the OP showed interest in power series expansions.
They are kind of... well... powerful.

My request to goody, please don't edit an opening post after people have answered.
Or at least not without indicating that the question was edited.
 

Attachments

  • original_OP.jpg
    original_OP.jpg
    12.2 KB · Views: 128
  • #15
Klaas van Aarsen said:
Ah well, I was kind of happy to see that the OP showed interest in power series expansions.
They are kind of... well... powerful.

Nobody's saying they aren't, I guess I'm just someone who believes in Occam's Razor, that the simplest and most concise solution is the best one.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K