Why the integral of a complex exponential can't be equal to zero?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the integral of a complex exponential function, specifically the integral ##\int e^{ixa}dx##. Participants explore the implications of integrating this function over infinite limits and the conditions under which the integral may or may not equal zero. The conversation touches on theoretical aspects, mathematical reasoning, and the properties of orthonormal bases in Fourier expansions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the integral from ##x = m2\pi/a## to ##x = n2\pi/a## equals zero for any integers ##m## and ##n##, and questions the validity of extending this to the limits ##m \rightarrow -\infty## and ##n \rightarrow +\infty##.
  • Another participant challenges the assertion that the integral vanishes, questioning the reasoning behind this conclusion.
  • It is noted that the limits of integration being infinite does not necessarily imply that the integral equals zero, as the integrand does not approach zero.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of restricting ##x## to specific forms when taking limits, with an analogy provided regarding the limit of ##(-1)^n##.
  • One participant argues that integrable functions do not need to vanish at infinity, providing a counterexample to illustrate this point.
  • Another participant points out that cherry-picking values for the integral's range does not constitute a proper limit evaluation.
  • A later reply discusses the behavior of the real part of the integral, indicating that while the signed area oscillates and equals zero infinitely often, it does not converge to a limit at infinity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the integral can be considered to equal zero when taken over infinite limits. There is no consensus on the validity of the initial claim or the implications of the properties of the integrand.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of proper limit evaluation and the behavior of the integrand at infinity, indicating that assumptions about the integrand's behavior may affect conclusions drawn from the integral.

kent davidge
Messages
931
Reaction score
56
I was just playing with the integral ##\int e^{ixa}dx## when I found something interesting. If you integrate from ##x = m2\pi/a## to ##x = n2\pi/a## where ##m## and ##n## are any two integers, the integral equals zero.

On one hand, as we can in principle choose whatever values we like for ##m## and ##n## (as long as they are integer numbers), if we let ##m \rightarrow -\infty## and ##n \rightarrow +\infty##, then the integral ##\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} e^{ixa}dx## should vanish.

On the other hand, this is absurd, since I know these exponentials even work as an orthonormal basis in Fourier expansions.

I presume my mistake is in taking those limits. What you think?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
kent davidge said:
if we let ##m \rightarrow -\infty## and ##n \rightarrow +\infty##, then the integral ##\int_{-\infty}^{+\infty} e^{ixa}dx## should vanish.
No it won't. Why should it ?
kent davidge said:
this is absurd, since I know these exponentials even work as an orthonormal basis
What's the contradiction ?
 
BvU said:
Why should it ?
because the limits of integration would be like ##-\infty## and ##+\infty##
BvU said:
What's the contradiction ?
if the mentioned integral vanished, we couldn't use the exponentials as bases at all.
 
kent davidge said:
because the limits of integration would be like ##-\infty## and ##+\infty##
That is not a criterion. The integrand does not go to zero.
 
You're not allowed to restrict ##x## to be of the form ##k\pi/a## when taking a limit ##x\to\infty##. For a simpler example, it's not true that ##\lim_{n\to\infty}(-1)^n=1## even though ##(-1)^n=1## when ##n## is even. Also note that you're assuming ##a\neq 0##.

BvU said:
That is not a criterion. The integrand does not go to zero.
Integrable functions don't have to vanish at infinity. Consider ##f(x)=1## when ##n\leq x\leq n+2^{-n}## for natural ##n##, and ##0## elsewhere. You can easily modify this to make a continuous counterexample if you'd like.
 
  • Informative
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: kent davidge and BvU
kent davidge said:
because the limits of integration would be like ##-\infty## and ##+\infty##
You are "cherry-picking" particular values for the range of the integral to get 0. That is not the proper way to take the limit of the integral as the upper and lower bounds go to infinity.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: dextercioby and kent davidge
apparently you are taking an integral over the real axis, so your integral vanishes if and only if the real and imaginary parts do. so graph say the real part of your integral, essentially cos(x), and look at the behavior as x goes to plus or minus infinity. You see the total amount of signed area oscillates back and forth, and equals zero infinitely often, but has no limit at infinity.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: kent davidge and FactChecker

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K