What is the Mole & Its Relation to AMU & Molar Mass

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    Mass Mole Relation
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the mole, its relationship to atomic mass units (AMU) and molar mass, as well as the historical and modern definitions of the mole. Participants explore the implications of these definitions and their understanding of the mole as a unit of measurement in chemistry.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the relationship between AMU and the mole, seeking clarity on their definitions and uses.
  • Another participant explains that a mole is a measurement of quantity, similar to a dozen, and specifies that one mole corresponds to approximately 6.023 x 10^23 particles.
  • It is noted that molar mass refers to the weight of one mole of a particular compound, with examples provided comparing hydrogen and helium.
  • Some participants express confusion regarding the definition of the mole in relation to the Avogadro constant, citing a Wikipedia quote that suggests it is a misconception to define the mole solely in terms of Avogadro's number.
  • One participant argues that while historical uses of the mole did not require knowledge of the number of particles, the modern definition does relate to Avogadro's constant.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the differences between "old" and "new" moles, indicating a desire for further research on the topic.
  • There is a correction regarding the mass of carbon-12 in relation to the mole, with a participant pointing out a typographical error in a previous post.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the mole should be defined in terms of Avogadro's constant. Some assert that the modern definition is indeed related to Avogadro's number, while others reference historical contexts that do not rely on this definition. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these differing definitions.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various sources, including Wikipedia and NIST, to support their claims, but there is no consensus on the interpretation of the mole's definition or its historical context. The discussion highlights the complexity of the topic and the nuances involved in understanding the mole.

wajed
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what is the relation between AMU & Mole?


also what is the difference between "Molar mass" and "mass"


and please, what is mole? I read this on Wikipedia.com:
"It is a common misconception that the mole is defined in terms of the Avogadro constant. It is not necessary to know the number of atoms or molecules which are present in order to use the mole as a unit of measurement,[5] and indeed the first measurements of amount of substance predate modern atomic theory and any measurements of atomic weight"

and I don`t get it, what is mole after all? and why is it a misconception to define mole in terms of Avogadro constant? and how does mole exactly "work"?


I know, lots of questions, I`m just pretty much confused, even my doctor didn't help me... I brought him a paper, and the first thing he wrote was "mole = molar mass", and I was like, Does mole equal molar mass?! is that an equal sign?! and he said "yes"!
 
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scratch the second question, which is "what is the difference between...", I understand that now..
 
A mole is a measurement of an amount of things. Like a dozen or a pair. It's 6.023 * 10^23 particles. You could say you want a mole of eggs or a dozen hydrogens, same type of measurement.

Molar Mass is how much one mole weighs of a particular compound. You can have a mole of hydrogen and a mole of helium but the mole of helium is going to way twice as much because a hydrogen has 1 proton+neutron whereas the helium has 2 proton+neutron pairs.

The AMU is a unit of mass measurement on the atomic scale.

1 mole of 1 AMU weights out to 1 gram. By knowing the AMU of an atom or compound you automatically know its molar mass.
 
but doesn`t that contrast with this quote:
"It is a common misconception that the mole is defined in terms of the Avogadro constant. It is not necessary to know the number of atoms or molecules which are present in order to use the mole as a unit of measurement,[5] and indeed the first measurements of amount of substance predate modern atomic theory and any measurements of atomic weight"
??
 
wajed said:
but doesn`t that contrast with this quote:
"It is a common misconception that the mole is defined in terms of the Avogadro constant. It is not necessary to know the number of atoms or molecules which are present in order to use the mole as a unit of measurement,[5] and indeed the first measurements of amount of substance predate modern atomic theory and any measurements of atomic weight"
??

Typical wikipedia. Over-edited into conflating various statements into something that's essentially wrong.

Yes, it's true that historically people used 'moles' that weren't modern 'moles'. And it's true that you can do most chemistry just fine without knowing the exact number of molecules involved - but rather work in terms of proportions; which is what they initially did.

But the modern 'mole' is defined in terms of Avogadro's constant.
 
So what's the difference between "old" moles and "new" moles? giving a keyword that I can use to search in google is enough, if you like

I would like you to see this page please: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_(unit )
because the standard definition doesn't mention "Avogadro`s number"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
See http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/current.html" .
 
Last edited by a moderator:
alxm said:
But the modern 'mole' is defined in terms of Avogadro's constant.

Not the official definition but certainly the concept is related to Avogadro's number.

Definition:

mole - The mole is the amount of substance of a system which contains as many elementary entities as there are atoms in 0.012 kilogram of carbon 12; its symbol is "mol."

Avogadro's number - The number of atoms or molecules needed to make up a mass equal to the substance's atomic or molecular mass, in grams. It happens to be 0.0012 kilograms of Carbon-12.
 
chemisttree said:
It happens to be 0.0012 kilograms of Carbon-12.

I think you meant to type 0.012 kg ?
 
  • #10
Yes, of course.
 

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