What is the most respectable career?

[Chi Meson]

Biased perhaps but still based on true experiences. I have no problem with and greatly respect those teachers that are good and truly want to be there, I just think there are to few of them. They provide a necessary and very important service. It is just discouraging to see how many people go into education because they could not get into anything else. Everyone I know that could not make it in their chosen field (physics, math, premed, biology, law) ended up deciding to go into education because it is the easiest faculty to get into that will actually land you a job when you graduate. They need to make that faculty harder to get into so the only people who actually want and deserve to be there are.

Come on. There are no "education usurpers" who are preventing the true teachers from getting jobs. I certainly did not go into teaching because I passed the "want and deserve" exam. I, with degrees in Physics, English, and an MFA in creative writing [don't ask], chose to teach rather than go into photonics (where I was heading) because I felt that 13 weeks of vacation each year made up for a $50,000 per year deficit.

IF there were more stringent requirements for teacher candidates, then we'd have fewer teachers. It wouldn't "free-up" space for the true and rightful teachers (those who truly want and deserve) to get through. IF you want to attract a better crowd for teacher candidates, then there needs to be more attractive compensation. That is why there are too few truly great teachers (on that statistic , we agree).

Where I work (Connecticut) there is a stark difference between the newer, younger teachers and the "Old Guard." This has everything to do with the increases in salaries over the last 15 years. Unfortunately, it takes a full generation (30 years) for a complete turn-over.

 

[Art]

I agree wholeheartedly that good teachers should be very well paid but the first hurdle to overcome is identifying who the good teachers are.

I don't know about in the US but in Britain and Ireland the teachers threw a collective fit when it was proposed testing their competency. They claimed the stress of it all would be too much for them to handle on top of the stress of their 6 hour day and 15 weeks paid holidays. One wonders how these folk would survive in the real world of typically 50-60 hour weeks and at a minimum annual performance reviews?

If teacher's unions were to embrace meritocracy then good teachers could and would be rewarded but it seems the risk of the underachievers being found out outweighs the benefits - at least in the UK and Ireland.

 

[SticksandStones]

I agree wholeheartedly that good teachers should be very well paid but the first hurdle to overcome is identifying who the good teachers are.

I don't know about in the US but in Britain and Ireland the teachers threw a collective fit when it was proposed testing their competency. They claimed the stress of it all would be too much for them to handle on top of the stress of their 6 hour day and 15 weeks paid holidays. One wonders how these folk would survive in the real world of typically 50-60 hour weeks and at a minimum annual performance reviews?

If teacher's unions were to embrace meritocracy then good teachers could and would be rewarded but it seems the risk of the underachievers being found out outweighs the benefits - at least in the UK and Ireland.

Being related to several teachers, I can tell you teachers do far more work than you are giving them credit for.

Teachers have to do far more than 6 hours a day of work. Your forgetting where they have meetings before and after school, homework they have to grade, and the classes they are required to take to keep up-to-date.

Homework grading can easily take from 5 o'clock when they get home until 10 o'clock when they go to bed.

As for their vacation time: I don't know how things work in England, but here teachers spend that time in meetings, classes, and more meetings. They have lesson plans they have to construct based off of last year's data (did they get through chapter X quickly enough? What about chapter Y? Do they understand concept Z?) and update the syllabus for the latest requirements the state passed.

Of course, some teachers aren't that dedicated. Some take their money and run and don't do crap. Others do a lot more than they should have to for their pay.

 

[Art]

Here (Ireland) when the teachers have a meeting it's during school time and the kids are sent home early, they have free periods during the day to grade work and their curriculum training again is done during the school day with the kids been given the day off - called in-service days. All extra curricular activity, sports, drama, whatever, is contracted out with the parents paying the costs.

 

[scorpa]

Come on. There are no "education usurpers" who are preventing the true teachers from getting jobs. I certainly did not go into teaching because I passed the "want and deserve" exam. I, with degrees in Physics, English, and an MFA in creative writing [don't ask], chose to teach rather than go into photonics (where I was heading) because I felt that 13 weeks of vacation each year made up for a $50,000 per year deficit.

And that is all great. I am not trying to say there are not good teachers out there or that good ones are prevented from getting jobs. I am saying it is a little to easy for people to become teachers, teaching should not be a field people can fall back on because they cannot make it anywhere else. I just have a problem when people go into the profession and then do nothing but complain about the poor pay, little respect..ect when they knew what they were getting into before hand. My grandfather was a teacher in a 2 room school, and really was paid slave wages, a few dollars a day I believe he once said. He has no use for teachers today that complain about how "bad they have it" because they really do not know what bad is.

Like I said it is a job worthy of respect, and kudos to anyone who can do it, I know I could not. I just hate the constant complaining and politics of the profession. Teachers are paid damn well (at least they are here, perhaps in the states it is different and they are more poorly paid).

This really isn't the point in this thread though and I do not want to hijak it.

 

[turbo]

My favorite teachers: Mrs Clark who was WAY past retirement age and was not only the 5-6th grade teacher in our little 4-room schoolhouse, but was the principal of the school. She knew that I was bored to tears, and brought in books from her own collections to keep me reading and make me write reports for extra credit. I was already getting A+ in all my courses, but the extra work kept me busy, so that I would not be a behavior problem...not that I was ever a problem that way.

Erling Skorpen, head of the philosophy department at UMO, who (after a 3-hour conversation that grew out of a 15 minute slot that he gave me) allowed me to take his advanced course in meta-ethics (for grad students and some selected seniors) for full credit. I never had to take a low-level or mid-level Philosophy course after that, if I wanted to avoid it. I'd mention my participation in the meta-ethics course and skirt all the 10x/20x stuff pretty easily.

 

[Astronuc]

Farmers - the ones who work the land they own.

PF Mentors - and they do it voluntarily

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I spent a fair amount of time tutoring students from the lower classes in college and I very much enjoyed doing it. So at one point I seriously considered teaching at the high school or JC level. But upon investigation, the overriding statement for me came from a recently retired math teacher: ~ To teach around here means teaching algebra for twenty years. Then, if you're lucky, before you die, you'll teach some pre-calculus classes.

 

[JasonRox]

I've always wondered why firefighters were so respected. For the most part they sit around doing nothing. If they're respected because most people wouldn't go into a burning building to save someone then I'm disappointed.

I agree too. Firefighters are way overrated.

In Canada, there's a long list of people who want to be a firefighter. So, I don't really see firefighters as "unique" people who are willing to risk their lives because the list of those who want to be one is huge hence there nothing really spectacular about the risk factor since just about anyone would do it.

 

[JasonRox]

Farmers - the ones who work the land they own.

I agree with that one too.

I met a trapper up North once too, and I totally respected him. He may trap some animals (within a quote and area and time!), but he surely beats all of us when it comes to being environmentally friendly.

 

[scorpa]

Farmers - the ones who work the land they own.

Agreed. A respectable profession and also a much underappreciated one.

 

[Zantra]

On teaching: Perhaps they are paid reasonably well in most cases nowadays. Do I think they're overpaid? absolutely not. I do agree that competency evaluations and performance related pay would help to motivate and weed our the bad teachers. But even if they're making 50-75k /year I think it's a necessary investment. In any other field that is underserved, increasing pay always attracts more quality candidates- teaching would be no different.

I think those of you complaining should try teaching before you knock it. And I don't mean just tutoring. Teaching a class is trying focus 30 minds on a single task or line of thought, and it's harder than you think. Try it sometime;) And no, I'm not a teacher, but I've taught classes before.

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

No ,your mother loves you. Very different.

They are quite different. My mother does both. We were taught that love ebbs and flows, but respect remains.

 

[click]

The career that forces you to work without personal gain for the betterment of humanity...

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

The career that forces you to work without personal gain for the betterment of humanity...

I'm not sure what you mean. Even slaves get fed.

 

[turbo]

I think those of you complaining should try teaching before you knock it. And I don't mean just tutoring. Teaching a class is trying focus 30 minds on a single task or line of thought, and it's harder than you think. Try it sometime;) And no, I'm not a teacher, but I've taught classes before.

Funny - I spent several years developing curricula, writing manuals, creating course materials, and teaching courses. No, I wasn't teaching HS kids - a much tougher crowd than that. I was hired to teach pulp and paper mill utility operators the physical principles behind the operation of chemical recovery boilers, power boilers, turbine-generator sets, and steam and electrical distribution systems, and (more importantly) the safety issues and procedures relevant to the operation of those systems. Some of my students had over 30 years of experience operating the equipment in question, and some had had at least some relevant training, but many had none, apart from on-the-job peer training, so they knew their job functions by rote and by whatever fundamentals their co-workers and supervisors could pass on. It can be tough to teach experienced adults who haven't had to take a course or put pencil to paper to take quizzes or do in-class assignments for decades. Some were bored, some were anxious about not doing well, some were resentful at having to take training courses covering equipment that they had been operating for years. By the end of the week (most courses were 5 full days) though, even the crustiest old crabs would come up and shake my hand as they were leaving and briefly touch on some principle or procedure that they had picked up in class or understood more fully because of the class. That was good.

 

[Mk]

most people wouldn't go into a burning building to save someone then I'm disappointed.

Sorry to hear that.

 

[Astronuc]

On teaching: Perhaps they are paid reasonably well in most cases nowadays. Do I think they're overpaid? absolutely not. I do agree that competency evaluations and performance related pay would help to motivate and weed our the bad teachers. But even if they're making 50-75k /year I think it's a necessary investment. In any other field that is underserved, increasing pay always attracts more quality candidates- teaching would be no different.

I think those of you complaining should try teaching before you knock it. And I don't mean just tutoring. Teaching a class is trying focus 30 minds on a single task or line of thought, and it's harder than you think. Try it sometime;) And no, I'm not a teacher, but I've taught classes before.

Agreed.

A family member works as a teaching assistant, who works with reading and math to help get some of the slower kids up to speed with the rest of the class. Or the teacher may provide remedial work while the TA monitors the remainder of the class. The students have a variety of capabilities and experiences, which by itself provides a challenge to get them all learning the same material at the same time, i.e. they are ALL supposed to have a similar competency at the end of the school year (at least according the expectations the system/community). Add to that the psychological/emotional issues - children coming to school hungry or without proper clothing because the parents cannot afford food or clothing, or children whose parent is ill, or who loses one parent because of divorce or death - or children coming to school after experiencing physical or psychological abuse, or witnessing one parent beating the other - and the teacher faces a huge challenge. Or how about dealing with children who are bullied or otherwise threatened by their peers?

The requirements to teach the children do not allow for the huge variations in academica ability in addition to the other factors.

 

[scorpa]

I'm not saying teaching is easy, far from it. Any teaching experiences I have had (and there have been only a few) have been difficult but also rewarding. All I am saying is that although perhaps teachers are not overpaid they are not underpaid either. They get paid more than most people with a 4 year bachelors degree do.