What is the name for the Heisenberg uncertainty principle?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the naming and interpretation of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle, particularly in the context of quantum mechanics and its implications outside of that framework. Participants explore various related concepts and inequalities, including the principle of complementarity and the Cauchy-Schwarz inequality.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the term "uncertainty principle" is specific to quantum mechanics and question the existence of a corresponding name for similar inequalities outside of QM.
  • Others argue that the question lacks meaning outside of quantum mechanics, suggesting that the inequalities do not have a direct equivalent in classical contexts.
  • A participant references Niels Bohr's principle of complementarity, suggesting it may relate to the discussion of inequalities in quantum mechanics.
  • Some participants propose the Cauchy-Schwarz inequality as a potential related concept, though there is disagreement about its relevance to the original question.
  • Another participant mentions the Heisenberg-Robertson uncertainty principle, explaining its implications regarding the simultaneous determination of position and momentum in quantum states.
  • Several participants suggest the Nyquist theorem as another possible related concept, with some asserting it shares similarities with the uncertainty principle.
  • There are repeated calls for clarification on the original intent of the question, with some participants expressing uncertainty about the meaning behind the inquiry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the naming of the inequalities outside of quantum mechanics, with multiple competing views presented regarding the relevance and interpretation of various concepts such as the principle of complementarity, Cauchy-Schwarz inequality, and Nyquist theorem.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the applicability of certain inequalities outside of quantum mechanics, and the definitions of terms used may vary among participants.

kent davidge
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TL;DR
besides the one in the title
In quantum mechanics the name is Uncertainty principle. But outside of QM, what is the name for those inequalities?
 
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Well, the uncertainty principle has a meaning in physics, and there isn't really a special name for characteristic equations that look exactly like the uncertainty principle. This question doesn't really mean anything.
 
kent davidge said:
Summary:: besides the one in the title

In quantum mechanics the name is Uncertainty principle. But outside of QM, what is the name for those inequalities?
Niels Bohr wrote often about complementary or conjugate variables. While within QM perhaps you are thinking of his theory of complementarity? From the linked article:

In physics, complementarity is both a theoretical and an experimental result of quantum mechanics, also referred to as principle of complementarity. Formulated by Niels Bohr, a leading founder of quantum mechanics, the complementarity principle holds that objects have certain pairs of complementary properties which cannot all be observed or measured simultaneously.

A reaction to Bohr by Werner Heisenberg (in the same artcle):
Bohr has brought to my attention [that] the uncertainty in our observation does not arise exclusively from the occurrence of discontinuities, but is tied directly to the demand that we ascribe equal validity to the quite different experiments which show up in the [particulate] theory on one hand, and in the wave theory on the other hand.
 
Last edited:
Do you perhaps mean the Cauchy-Schwartz inequality?
 
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Vanadium 50 said:
Do you perhaps mean the Cauchy-Schwartz inequality?
I don't think that's what he means!
 
It's the Heisenberg-Robertson uncertainty principle. The correct interpretation is that quantum theory predicts that you cannot prepare a particle where both position and momentum are well determined, i.e., if you prepare the particle to be at a well-defined position (i.e., with a narrow position-probability distribution peaked sharply at a point in position space), then necessarily its momentum distribution is broad.

Quantitatively it says that in any (pure or mixed) quantum state the standard deviations of the components of the position vector of a particle and its momentum components is
$$\Delta x_i \Delta p_i \geq \hbar/2.$$
It follow directly from the very fundamental properties of the quantum theoretical notion of states and the description of observables in terms of self-adjoint operators on a Hilbert space. It's a direct consequence of the positive definiteness of the scalar product and the associated Cauchy-Schwarz in equality as @Vanadium 50 mentioned above.
 
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martinbn said:
I don't think that's what he means!

I'm not sure even he knows what he means. But I think my guess is at least a potential answer to the question he posed.
 
  • #10
A. Neumaier said:
Perhaps you were looking for the Nyquist theorem?
Why is this your guess?
 
  • #11
A. Neumaier said:
Perhaps you were looking for the Nyquist theorem?
This is as classical as classical physics can be. I'm not aware of any uncertainty in the sampling processes, although information is lost (by definition) and that can create uncertainty when trying to go backwards (reconstruction).
 
  • #12
martinbn said:
Why is this your guess?
It's essentially the same inequality.
 
  • #13
A. Neumaier said:
It's essentially the same inequality.
How!
 
  • #14
kent davidge said:
Summary:: besides the one in the title

In quantum mechanics the name is Uncertainty principle. But outside of QM, what is the name for those inequalities?
It has no meaning outside QM. What were you trying to ask?
 
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  • #15
Well, there's some meaning in classical waves too. E.g., if you want a nicely monochromatic electromagnetic wave (light) you have to live with that it is wide-spread in position and vice versa.

The relation to the Nyquist theorem thus simply is that it tells you about the relation of the width of distributions related by a Fourier transformation.
 
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  • #16
kent davidge said:
Summary:: besides the one in the title

In quantum mechanics the name is Uncertainty principle. But outside of QM, what is the name for those inequalities?
principle of complementarity
 
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