What is the nature of entropy and its relationship to equilibrium?

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the nature of entropy and its relationship to equilibrium, specifically addressing misconceptions about entropy as mere disorder. The example of mixing salt and pepper illustrates the transition to higher entropy, while the behavior of oil and water demonstrates that systems can return to a previous state due to density differences. The second principle of thermodynamics is correctly applied to thermodynamic entropy but misapplied to configurational entropy in binary mixtures. The conversation highlights the complexity of statistical mechanics in understanding entropy in dissipative systems.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of the second principle of thermodynamics
  • Familiarity with concepts of thermodynamic and configurational entropy
  • Basic knowledge of statistical mechanics
  • Awareness of dissipative systems and their properties
NEXT STEPS
  • Explore the principles of thermodynamic entropy in detail
  • Study configurational entropy in binary mixtures
  • Research statistical mechanics of powders and granular materials
  • Investigate the implications of dissipative systems on entropy and equilibrium
USEFUL FOR

Students of physics, researchers in thermodynamics, and anyone interested in the principles of entropy and equilibrium in physical systems.

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Homework Statement


My understanding of entropy seems to be a bit flawed. I think of it as disorder. As an example consider a bag with a layer of salt in the bottom and a layer of pepper on top. If the bag is shaken the salt and pepper mix (move to higher entropy) and no matter how much you shake you won't reproduce the original state.
My problem with this is if there is a density difference once you stop shaking the bag it will return to the original state or something close to it, after enough time. For instance try the same experiment with oil and water.
The problem is probably that I only have a basic understanding of these things, so what's the real story?


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution

 
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Hi,

The problem is that you try to apply the second principle of thermodynamics for the thermodynamic entropy to a configurational entropy for a binary mixture of macroscopic grains.

There is no reason for your extension of the second principle to be true in general even though statistical mechanics of powders is something very appealing if achievable and therefore many effort are done in this direction since few decades.

The fundamental reasons why your reasoning may not work in general is that the way your powders arrange themselves when you shake them is protocol dependent and most likely even on days time scale the final result has still a memory of the original state. Moreover your system is dissipative and hence do not conserve probability (at least not in the sense of Liouville Theorem).
 

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