What is the process of photon emission in atoms?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the process of photon emission in atoms, exploring the nature of photons, their creation, and the underlying principles of quantum electrodynamics (QED). Participants engage with concepts related to energy levels of electrons, the electromagnetic field, and the interpretation of photons as wave packets rather than classical particles.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that photon emission occurs when an electron transitions to a lower energy level, releasing a photon, but there is confusion about how photons are related to electrons.
  • One participant asserts that electrons do not contain photons and that photons are created at the moment of emission.
  • Questions arise about the origin and creation of photons, with some suggesting they are produced by the excitation of the electromagnetic field.
  • There is a discussion about the necessity of understanding QED for a complete grasp of photon behavior, with references to advanced quantum mechanics.
  • Some participants express that the concept of photons being timeless and not created leads to philosophical implications about the universe's existence.
  • Participants explore analogies, such as comparing photon emission to a wave traveling along a slinky, to clarify the nature of photons and fields.
  • There are assertions that photons have zero mass but possess momentum, leading to further discussion about the implications of these properties.
  • One participant emphasizes the difference between understanding nature and understanding the theories that describe it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a variety of views on the nature of photons, their creation, and the implications of their properties. There is no consensus on the interpretation of these concepts, and multiple competing views remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions hinge on the definitions of terms like "timeless" and "creation," which may depend on the theoretical framework being used. The conversation also reflects varying levels of understanding of quantum mechanics and the implications of these theories.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to individuals exploring quantum mechanics, photon behavior, and the philosophical implications of modern physics theories.

cragar
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k my physics background is limited , I know that photon emission is when the electron moves down in energy level thus releasing a photon but how does the photon get inside the electron , the energy that moves the electron into a higher level when this energy
moves the electron out their is this how the photon gets into the electron , please clarify
 
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Electrons do not contain photons. The photon is created at the moment of emission.
 
ok , where is it created from or how is it created .
 
Let me preface this by saying that I am not in any way an authority in the field. As far as I know, though, you get down to the range where everything consists of wave packets.
Thinking of sub-atomic particles as... well... particles... is counter-productive.
 
The photon is produced by the excitation of the electromagnetic field, in the theoretical framework that describes electrons and photons (Quantum Electrodynamics) the photons are quanta of the electromagnetic field.
 
so the field is already there it just hasn't been excited
 
cragar said:
so the field is already there it just hasn't been excited

well at this level, yes :-)
 
so would I need to understand QED to completely understand this
 
cragar said:
so would I need to understand QED to completely understand this

well here is a web course: http://www.phys.uAlberta.ca/~gingrich/phys512/latex2html/node1.html

It assumes that you have done advanced Quantum mechanics, at the level of Sakurai's book "modern quantum mechanics"

It is a difference of understanding and understanding. Since the language of physics is math, the understanding is almost always contained in the formalism. So for a complete understanding, yes, one needs to know the theory - otherwise it would not be a complete understanding.
 
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  • #10
Nobody completely understands it. That's the beauty of science. Keep investigating.
 
  • #11
yeah that is true, it is also a difference of understanding nature and understanding a theory that describes nature ;-)
 
  • #12
thanks for helping guys , i at least have a better understanding and ur right i can't think of a photon like a pool ball i need to think of it as a wave packet.
 
  • #13
cragar said:
ok , where is it created from or how is it created .

Photon is timeless, it's not created... It just is in the electron (as energy, if you wish), or around it (as the field, again, if you wish), and it is transmitted or absorbed.

There is quite a nice explanation about this on Hecht's Optics.
 
  • #14
mind said:
Photon is timeless, it's not created... It just is in the electron (as energy, if you wish), or around it (as the field, again, if you wish), and it is transmitted or absorbed.

There is quite a nice explanation about this on Hecht's Optics.

that is the classical explanation, i.e classical electrodynamics
 
  • #15
Is it true that photons have no mass/weight? Please clarify this, I may be misinformed.
 
  • #16
Photons have zero mass
 
  • #17
so if photons are not created and are timeless , then the universe has been around forever .
 
  • #18
That's what I thought, thank you.
 
  • #19
A photon does, however, have momentum.
 
  • #20
right and they have a force too. Photons always seem to capture people's imagination
and invoke interesting debates , nature is cunning an Einstein would put it.
 
  • #21
cragar said:
so if photons are not created and are timeless , then the universe has been around forever .

Being timeless is not the same as being forever. Or, as an illustration, being massless is not the same as nonexistence (or, at the other end, omnipresence).
Timelessness just says that you can't measure the existence of a photon with a clock (why?)
 
  • #22
You could think of it like this:

Imagine that you are holding one end of a slinky and have attach the other end to a wall. When you suddenly lower your hand 10 cm, a wave travels along the slinky. Lowering your hand is like an electron dropping an energy level and the wave is like a photon.

The wave wasn't in your hand. Ya, dig?
 
  • #23
so ur saying the field is always there just not excited.
 
  • #24
Hmm, yes, it is there, but you will never know that it is there, unless you excite it. But, if you excite it, some might argue, aren't you creating it?

I hope this has helped you departure from your initial picture where photon was a thing that can enter electrons. It might be so, but that thing is a very very strange thing, and absolutely not similar to the real things, which are made of electrons, protons and other stuff.
 
  • #25
it has definitely opened up my mind
 

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