What is the recent tribute song released for the Orlando nightclub shooting?

[Astronuc]

yet this in very same paper the very next day..
http://nypost.com/2016/06/13/shooter-used-to-visit-orlando-gay-club-use-gay-dating-apps/

They also shot down claims that Mateen had snapped after seeing two men kissing each other in public.

Unless those disputing the father's claim actually witnessed the event, they are simply speculating. In the presence of his father, Omar Mateen may have reacted in a way he felt his father would approve when confronted with seeing gay men expressing affection.

 

[jim hardy]

Unless those disputing the father's claim actually witnessed the event, they are simply speculating.

Agreed, Rolling Stone should have said disputed not shot down.

In the presence of his father, Omar Mateen may have reacted in a way he felt his father would approve when confronted with seeing gay men expressing affection.

Agreed, it might well have been an act.

 

[EnumaElish]

Islamic terrorists have appeared as uncreative creatures of habit ... but clearly there are soft targets that provide significant opportunity and they are starting to realize it. And it will be very difficult to mitigate the risk.

I know you didn't mean it that way. But I have got to make it clear: there's nothing soft about these targets. To the contrary, them d.ckless SOBs would be quite soft to the touch without an assault rifle that makes up for their missing manhood. Enough said?

 

[EnumaElish]

That doesn't really answer the question: what should our elected officials be saying that they are not?

Something like "I am disgusted by the recent attack on an LGBT community. On behalf of this office that I was elected I am proud to say today we are all lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered. Which I am sure the good people who voted me to this office support wholeheartedly" would have been appropriate IMO.

 

[jim hardy]

This is a fair thing to do in my opinion. Consider Tim McVeigh. Raised catholic and went to church often as a child. Killed 3 times as many as Mateen and injured 20 times as many. Not only that, he did it in a way that was sure to put himself out of harms way. I am not defending Mateen at all. As far as I am concerned he was a nut who happened to be a muslim.

McVeigh seems to have been driven more by a sense of nationalism than theology

synopsis of his descent into "heart of darkness" here
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/mcveigh/mcveighaccount.html

The Making of an American Terrorist

The childhood of Timothy McVeigh in Lockport, New York was far from idyllic. His parents divorced in 1978, when Tim was ten, and for the remainder of his school years he lived mainly with his father, Bill McVeigh. Scrawny and unathletic, "Noodle" McVeigh became a target for neighborhood bullies. He attributes a lifelong hatred for bullies of all kinds (a class which, in his view, included an overreaching federal government) to early beatings on softball diamonds and head spinning "swirlies" in flushing toilets. It is possible that McVeigh's fascination with guns, dating to pre-teen years spent admiring his grandfather's .22-caliber rifle, might have something to do with his view of weapons as the great equalizer. He dedicated himself to developing his marksmanship skills, spending hours shooting holes in soft-drink cans in a ravine. By age 14, Tim McVeigh's interests included survivalism. He began stockpiling food and camping equipment in preparation for possible nuclear attack or a communist overthrow of the United States government.

Mentor's note: edited for copyright reasons

No point really intended by this post, just continuing Averagesupernova's train of thought...

what makes a psyche smolder ?

 

[axmls]

what makes a psyche smolder ?

That's the root of it all, I think. It's hard to predict exactly who's going to snap.

I'm actually interested in the question of what's more effective at reducing gun violence: increased gun control or improved mental health care.

 

[mheslep]

Something like "I am disgusted by the recent attack on an LGBT community. On behalf of this office that I was elected I am proud to say today we are all lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered. Which I am sure the good people who voted me to this office support wholeheartedly" would have been appropriate IMO.

Here's what Obama said, in part, the same day:

Today, as Americans, we grieve the brutal murder -- a horrific massacre -- of dozens of innocent people. We pray for their families, who are grasping for answers with broken hearts. We stand with the people of Orlando, who have endured a terrible attack on their city. Although it’s still early in the investigation, we know enough to say that this was an act of terror and an act of hate. And as Americans, we are united in grief, in outrage, and in resolve to defend our people...

This is an especially heartbreaking day for all our friends -- our fellow Americans -- who are lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender. ...

You find that insufficient? Why so?

Were the condolences offered on behalf of other domestic terror killings also insufficient, the 13 killed by Hassan at Ft Hood, the 267 Bostonians maimed and wounded by the Tsarnaev brothers, the 14 killed from the The San Bernadino Department of Public Health by Malik and Farook?

 

[Evo]

Here's what Obama said, in part, the same day:

You find that insufficient? Why so?

Were the condolences offered on behalf of other domestic terror killings also insufficient, the 13 killed by Hassan at Ft Hood, the 267 Bostonians maimed and wounded by the Tsarnaev brothers, the 14 killed from the The San Bernadino Department of Public Health by Malik and Farook?

Because this guy targeted the LGBT community, it wasn't random as the others you mentioned were. This was a hate crime against LGBT's. Articles say that he carefully scoped out at least 2 gay clubs there before deciding on pulse. He did surveilllance, went inside and cased the place, got to know the routines of the workers, including the security guard. Even made friends with some of the patrons (I heard) so that he wouldn't seem out of place to add to the confusion.

 

[lisab]

I was moved by this speech by the Lieutenant Governor of Utah - male, straight, conservative, Republican. Seriously, it's worth watching:

 

[Astronuc]

I was moved by this speech by the Lieutenant Governor of Utah - male, straight, conservative, Republican. Seriously, it's worth watching:

I just read the text. Very nice, very moving, indeed!

He ended his speech with the words of President Lyndon B. Johnson spoken at the death of President John F. Kennedy:
"Our enemies have always made the same mistake. In my lifetime, in depression and in war, they have awaited our defeat. Each time, from the secret places of the American heart, came forth the faith they could not see or that they could not even imagine. It brought us victory. And it will again. For this is what America is all about."

Entire speech.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/utah-lt-gov-says-heart-195554609.html

 

[russ_watters]

Because this guy targeted the LGBT community, it wasn't random as the others you mentioned were.

The others were most decidedly NOT random! They targeted Americans (and civilians for most)!

 

[HossamCFD]

I was moved by this speech by the Lieutenant Governor of Utah - male, straight, conservative, Republican. Seriously, it's worth watching:

It's a brilliant speech. I almost forgot that politicians are capable of being sincere.

 

[OmCheeto]

It looks as though the filibuster has come to an end.

Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut tweeted a few minutes ago; "I am proud to announce that after 14+ hours on the floor, we will have a vote on closing the terror gap & universal background checks"​

Murphy And Democrats Lead Senate Filibuster In Bid To Force Gun Control Debate
As the day wore on, a stream of Democrats came to the floor to speak, relieving Murphy for brief stretches as the filibuster stretched into the evening, with 40 joining the effort by late Wednesday.

 

[jim hardy]

whatever his motive,
might turn out he rationalized it with same old 'radical islam' excuseSenator Ron Johnson to Facebook:

Dear Mr. Zuckerberg:

The Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs is examining the June 12, 2016 terrorist attack in Orlando, Florida. It is my understanding that Omar Mateen used Facebook before and during the attack to search for and post terrorism-related content. I appreciate Facebook’s support of the law-enforcement investigation into this attack and previous attacks. While Facebook is not a target of the Committee’s inquiry, I respectfully request your assistance with the Committee’s inquiry.

According to information obtained by my staff, five Facebook accounts were apparently associated with Omar Mateen. On June 12, 2016, Mateen apparently searched for “Pulse Orlando” and “Shooting.” Mateen also apparently posted “America and Russia stop bombing the Islamic state..I pledge my alliance to abu bakr al Baghdadi..may Allah accept me.” He then posted “The real muslims will never accept the filthy ways of the west” and “You kill innocent women and children by doing us airstrikes..now taste the Islamic state vengeance.” In a final post, Mateen apparently wrote, “In the next few days you will see attacks from the Islamic state in the usa.” ...
...
Ron Johnson
Chairman

www.foxnews.com/us/2016/06/15/letter-from-sen-ron-johnson-to-facebook-regarding-orlando-shooters-posts.html
and
http://www.kgw.com/news/nation-now/senate-homeland-security-chair-seeks-orlando-gunmans-facebook-info/245577266

 

[jim hardy]

It looks as though the filibuster has come to an end.

Mateen shouldn't have slipped by.

WASHINGTON — The F.B.I. director said on Monday that the gunman in the mass killing in Orlando was on a terrorist watchlist from 2013 to 2014, but that months of intense investigation into his foreign travels, his inflammatory language with co-workers and his possible motivations did not produce enough evidence to arrest him.
(Should they have landed him on the NICS's "dont sell this guy a gun" list ? jh)
The director, James B. Comey Jr., defended his agency’s handling of its past inquiries into the gunman, Omar Mateen, telling reporters that there had been no indication that F.B.I. agents in Florida missed any chances to apprehend or prosecute Mr. Mateen before the deadly rampage in which he proclaimed his allegiance to the Islamic State.

The attack highlighted the difficulty the American government faces in addressing the threat from the terrorist group. Unlike Al Qaeda, which favored highly organized and planned operations, the Islamic State has encouraged anyone to take up arms in its name. Often, that means the F.B.I. is looking to identify people who have committed no crime.

Once the F.B.I. closes an investigation, agents are required to remove the targets from terrorism watchlists. That rule is intended to prevent the United States from keeping secretive, open-ended watchlists based on suspicions that are ultimately unfounded.

There's some achievable compromise between positions of NRA and HCI.
But - Can you infringe the 2nd without also infringing the 1st.?

 

[1oldman2]

There's some achievable compromise between positions of NRA and HCI.
But - Can you infringe the 2nd without also infringing the 1st.?

Tried opening your png but keep getting an error.

 

[jim hardy]

Tried opening your png but keep getting an error.

that png was an error

sorry

old jim

 

[Ivan Seeking]

I couldn't help but think that Disneyworld was doomed this week. The gunman apparently considered Disney as a target but opted for The Pulse. So after barely avoiding a shooting tragedy at Disneyworld, another one unfolds as an alligator nabs a small child from a Disney Hotel beach.

I would bet ZapperZ has stood right where that child was grabbed.

 

[OmCheeto]

Mateen shouldn't have slipped by.

There's some achievable compromise between positions of NRA and HCI.
But - Can you infringe the 2nd without also infringing the 1st.?

Mateen doesn't strike me as that much different than countless other people within other "intolerance" groups. (White supremacists, etc)
And you're right, the 2nd and 1st make this sticky. And the fact that millions of people own assault weapons makes this sticky.

If you'll notice, yesterday was the first time I posted anything about this incident.
It's because after nothing was done after Sandy Hook, I knew this would happen again.
So I wasn't all that shocked.

Yesterday was also the first time I posted something about it on Facebook.
It was simply a share of a video, posted on youtube on the 13th, by someone named Samantha Bee, on some program called "Full Frontal".
It's titled: "Again? Again"
It's quite full of profanity, so I'll not share the link.
But I agree with everything she said. It's a complicated situation, and everyone has an opinion on what causes all of this.
My opinion was that we should start with something simple.
And that's what yesterday/today's filibuster accomplished, IMHO.

 

[jim hardy]

... millions of people own assault weapons makes this sticky.

Assault weapon = ugly gun

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/guncontrol/a/Assault-Weapons.htm

While the term “assault weapons” has long been used globally to describe a broad variety of military and non-military weapons, those weapons were not defined by specific characteristics in America’s legal system until Congress approved the AWB

The Basis for an Assault Weapon Classification
Most nations do not use the term “assault weapon” to classify civilian weaponry. In the United States, the term was rarely used before gun control political efforts emerged in the 1980s. In 1989, California became the first U.S. state to identify and outlaw assault weapons.

Also in 1989, the U.S. prohibited several types of semi-automatic rifles from being imported. Those rifles were among the weapons that would eventually be banned by the AWB in 1994. Many of them were a version of the Russian military’s AK-47.

Several thousand of those semi-automatic rifles, which were manufactured in China, had been purchased by American gun owners.

The term “assault weapon” was a spin-off of the U.S. military’s definition of assault rifles. The U.S. Department of Defense has long defined assault rifles as fully automatic rifles used for military purposes.

Fully-automatic weapons have been prohibited in the U.S. since the National Firearms Act of 1934. Fully-automatic firearms can spray fire with a single pull of the trigger, while semi-automatic guns fire one shot with each pull of the trigger.
......
......
In general, the AWB defined any firearm with a detachable magazine and at least two of certain other characteristics as an assault weapon.

For rifles, those characteristics included:

• Telescoping stock
• Pistol grip
• Bayonet mount
• Grenade launcher
• Flash suppressor

For shotguns:

• Telescoping stock
• Pistol grip
• A capacity to hold more than five rounds

For handguns:

• Threaded barrels made to attach a barrel extender, handgrip or flash suppressor
• A barrel shroud that can be used as a handhold
• Weight of at least 50 oz. when unloaded

"Assault" rifle, .223 caliber semiautomatic

not-assault rifle, .223 caliber semiautomatic

Just clarifying the terms
...

The rifle in the top picture has a couple of advantages.
1. The barrel is directly inline with the stock not above it. That means the recoil does not make a "force couple" , ie torque , so the gun doesn't rotate up when fired.,
2. A buffer spring in the stock that reduces recoil to barely perceptible.
Small wonder sportsmen love it.

I suppose ugly guns appeal to smoldering psyches that want to project a fearsome image.
I prefer handsome ones myself.

old jim

 

[mheslep]

Some have noted a difference between the headlines from US media on the 12th-13th and other world media. The difference in the connection to ISIS is significant.

Daily Mirror

ISIS Maniac Kills 50 in Gay Club

The Times UK

"He swore allegiance to Isis then shot 50 dead"

Daily Mail

ISIS 'posted kill list online to inspire lone wolf attacks against thousands of Americans including 600 in Florida'

Euronews

l’Isis rivendica, "Mateen era dei nostri" [ISIS claims , Mateen was ours]

Le Monde

Tuerie d’Orlando : l’obsession homophobe de l’Etat islamique [Slaughter in Orlando: homophobic obsession of the Islamic State]

In the U.S., the first headlines focus on the mass shooting and hate, but ISIS, if it appears at all, is in the small print. USA Today, HuffPo, Chicago Tribune, are similar and the NY Daily News outrageous. The exception seems to be the NYT and the NY Post.

USA Today:

MASSACRE Orlando Mass Shooting Deadliest in U.S. History.

NY Daily News

50 Dead in Orlando Club Massacre. Thanks NRA.

NY Post

Islamic Terrorist Kills 50

 

[jim hardy]

Well now...
We wouldn't want to start a war , would we ?

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Well now...
We wouldn't want to start a war , would we ?

It really is about time we attack Indiana.

Or do you wish to glorify ISIS by giving them credit where none is due? As far as we know, they didn't plan this or carry it out. It was a nut who used Islam to feed his inner demons. Good on the US press for not sensationalizing this and aiding the enemy.

 

[nikkkom]

Either way, it is hard to see any effective measures currently being taken to stop mass shootings. On the contrary, they seem to be increasing. Must we suppose they are essentially part of the price to be paid for technologies such as the semi-auto rifle and the internet? Eliminating the internet would be easier than eliminating firearms, and perhaps it would be more effective?

What is interesting is that mass shootings is NOT THE MAIN PROBLEM. They constitute 1-2% of all firearm-related murders. If tomorrow they will be somehow completely eliminated, murder rate will practically not change.

And yet, US media and political discourse is constantly returning to "mass shootings problem".

Whereas there *is* a huge, huge problem which causes HALF of gun deaths. Look into this FBI data table on FBI website:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...f_vicitm_by_race_and_sex_of_offender_2013.xls

Race, Ethnicity, and Sex of Victim by Race, Ethnicity, and Sex of Offender, 2013
Single victim/single offender

Black victims: 2491, of them 2245 killed by black offender
Total victims: 5723

African Americans: 12.6% of the population

If murders would be statistically uncorrelated with race,
only about 5723*12.6% = 721 "black-on-black" murders would be expected.

Why US media and political discourse is silent about black youth education and lifestyle evidently making them prone to killing each other? It's MUCH more significant than mass shootings!

Aw, I see. Political correctness. Can't say anything bad about blacks, or else you are a racist.

 

[jim hardy]

Or do you wish to glorify ISIS by giving them credit where none is due?

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/13/us/orlando-shooting-isis-ramadan-attacks/index.html
(CNN)The deadliest terrorist attack on U.S. soil since 9/11 followed a clarion call by ISIS to its supporters in the United States to launch attacks during Ramadan, the Islamic Holy Month, which started last week.

In an audio recording released on May 21, ISIS spokesman Abu Mohammed al Adnani called for "a month of hurt" in the United States as well as Europe.
His message to ISIS sympathizers like Orlando shooter Omar Mateen: Stay home and kill anybody, anyhow, anywhere.

http://www.nytimes.com/live/orlando-nightclub-shooting-live-updates/isis-radio-station/
http://www.nytimes.com/live/orlando-nightclub-shooting-live-updates/isis-radio-station
One day after the worst mass shooting in United States history, the Islamic State’s official radio station issued a statement formally claiming responsibility for the attack. The announcement, on the Al Bayan station of the Islamic State, comes on the heels of a similar, brief statement on Sunday, made through the terrorist group’s news agency.

In the radio announcement on Monday, the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL, describes the gunman, Omar Mateen, as “one of the soldiers of the Caliphate,” a term used by the group both to refer to its fighters enlisted under its command on the battlegrounds of Syria and Iraq, as well as to adherents who act in the name of the Islamic State, even if they have with no direct ties to the group.

“With facilitation from Allah the Almighty, the brother Omar Mateen, one of the soldiers of the Caliphate in America, carried out a security raid in which he was able to enter into a gathering of Crusaders in a nightclub for followers of the people of Lot in Orlando, Florida,” the radio announcement said, using a term for gays, according to a translation provided by the SITE Intelligence Group, which tracks extremist propaganda. “Allah enabled him to subdue the impure Crusaders, killing and wounding more than a hundred of them before he was killed — may Allah accept him. It should be pointed out that this invasion is the largest in America in terms of the number killed.”

As i said 47 posts earlier somebody is actively mining smolderers.
You don't have to press an "Ignite" button , just fan the embers.

 

[mheslep]

...Either way, it is hard to see any effective measures currently being taken to stop mass shootings. ...

Yes there is. If the opportunity arises, ask a psychiatrist that has done time in the ER or the like about what their options are when a highly likely to be dangerous lunatic comes in. It makes Catch 22 sound simple and direct by comparison. The system has been broken badly for so long, and now there is about to be a major improvement.

Rep Murphy's mental health bill is by far the most substantive reform tried, and highly likely to be effective in the mental illness related cases like the Conn school shooting.

"House Energy and Commerce Committee, ... today passed bipartisan legislation to reform our nation’s mental health system by a vote of 53-0"
https://energycommerce.house.gov/news-center/press-releases/ec-passes-landmark-bipartisan-mental-health-reform-bill

That this real legislation is going forward in a Presidential election year speaks to Ryan's remarkable leadership; the monotone and ineffective blather about guns and so called GOP obstruction speaks to the leadership coming out the White House

 

[Tobias Funke]

Mental health reform and effective gun control can both happen simultaneously, you know. I see a lot of monotone and ineffective blather from the right too: Chicago, black on black crime, why focus on the LGBT aspect because they're all part of the larger class of bipeds?, mental health, pedantic discussions of the definition of "assault weapon", the lie that Muslims don't condemn these actions, and I probably missed some (has Sweden been left out this time?). Anything but the very real problem of easy access to weapons that kill 50 people in minutes.

 

[mheslep]

I don't know of any "effective" gun control proposals coming out of the White House, something with data behind it. Dismissal of http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Blogs/social-mobility-memos/2015/12/15-guns-race-different-worlds-reeves/Reeves-1215001.png?la=en the gun crime and mental health aspects doesn't seem like a good start.

Worst school massacre in US history: Kehoe, 1927, dynamite.

It is insidious that more has been not done yet to reduce murder in the US, but more insidious is that the proposals from the White House don't do anything effective about it, leaving the conclusion that people in the White House simply don't like the Americans they describe as those that "cling to guns".

http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/who-fits-the-profile-of-a-mass-shooter--537143363703
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/two-reporters-debate-politics-of-gun-violence-537179715905

 

[nikkkom]

leaving the conclusion that people in the White House simply don't like the Americans they describe as those that "cling to guns".

With a pragmatic look at politics, this is expected. White House will tend to work against people who aren't their electoral base, and work in favor of those who are.

"People who cling to guns" are more often Republican / libertarian minded, not Democrat. Blacks, OTOH, vote predominantly for Democrats.

 

[jim hardy]

Anything but the very real problem of easy access to weapons that kill 50 people in minutes.

And just how is "easy access" relevant to the Orlando shooting ?
Mateen didn't have easy access, he was cleared by a psychologist to carry a gun and was issued a license.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/psychologist-who-tested-mateen-for-security-job-did-same-for-another-killer/ar-AAh6qvf
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — The psychologist who administered the test that established Orlando killer Omar Mateen as mentally fit to carry concealed weapons as a private security guard did the same for another South Florida killer who worked for the same company.

Carol Nudelman, who had an office on Red Road in South Miami, administered the tests that determined Mateen was “mentally and emotionally stable,” according to an application for a Class G firearms license released Wednesday by the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services. It’s unclear from the application whether the evaluation involved anything more than giving him a standard written test.
...
Mateen, who killed 49 people early Sunday at a gay club in Orlando, had also worked as a security guard for G4S. He held two licenses from the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services: a Class D security officer license and a Class G firearms license.

The gun license allowed him to carry up to two firearms. The psychological evaluation by Nudelman was conducted on Sept. 6, 2007, according to his firearm license application.