What is the role of the Higgs boson in unifying different forces and particles?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the role of the Higgs boson in the unification of different forces and particles, exploring concepts related to the Standard Model, virtual particles, and the nature of electromagnetic and weak nuclear forces. Participants engage with theoretical implications and the historical context of these forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that forces are mediated by bosons, such as photons for electromagnetic interactions, but question the nature of this mediation, particularly regarding virtual particles.
  • There is a discussion about whether virtual photons mediate forces in scenarios like mutual inductance, with some suggesting that the near field is indeed mediated by virtual photons.
  • Participants note that magnetism is also a force that involves photon exchange, and discuss the unification of electromagnetic and weak nuclear forces through W and Z bosons.
  • Some suggest that the Higgs boson may act as a carrier of a new fundamental force, contributing to the inertial mass of various particles and potentially linking to gravitational effects.
  • There is a consideration of the historical unification of forces at high temperatures in the early universe, leading to questions about the relationship between different forces and their mediators.
  • One participant explores the idea that the Higgs mechanism and gravitational effects can be conceptually unified under a new "force" termed inertia, raising questions about the nature of attraction and resistance in different contexts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the mediation of forces, the role of virtual particles, and the implications of the Higgs boson. The discussion remains unresolved with no clear consensus on these complex topics.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the complexity of virtual particles and the historical context of force unification, but do not resolve the implications of these concepts or the definitions involved.

Saw
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Since the four forces are a "closed list", one of them should be present in each interaction and, according to Standard model, a boson or mediating particle should be doing the job of the relevant force. For instance, the photon is the mediating particle of electromagnetic force. In turn, electrostatics seems to fall within the domain of electromagnetic force and hence the photon should be doing all jobs in this area.

But is it really so? If I have an electron and 1 meter away a proton, they attract each other. Does that mean that a photon is traveling between the two particles? I would tend to think "no", but then I don't know what to do with the statement of the first paragraph.
 
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It means that the force is being mediated by virtual photons. However, the concept of virtual particles is a complicated one. I suggest using the search function to look for threads on virtual particles.
 
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Thank you. Just a quick question: and when an AC in a conductor induces another AC in another conductor (mutual inductance as per Faraday's law), do also virtual photons mediate the force? If so, why not real photons?
 
Saw said:
Thank you. Just a quick question: and when an AC in a conductor induces another AC in another conductor (mutual inductance as per Faraday's law), do also virtual photons mediate the force? If so, why not real photons?

As far as I know, yes, the near field is mediated by virtual photons.
 
Don't forget that magnetism is also a "force" to be reckoned with in terms of photon exchange in electromagnetism. EM and the weak nuclear forces have been "unified", which is to say, the W and Z bosons also have something to do with the forces that hold atoms together.

It has been suggested by many that the Higgs boson is itself the carrier of a new fundamental force. Before it was discovered, the foundation of the 'electroweak' force was certainly this particle. But the Higgs mechanism imparts at least inertial mass to electrons, positrons, quarks, antiquarks, W and Z bosons. Prior to its discovery, there was no such force. Particle physicists are somehow more apt to identify gravity with gravitons, than they are to admit that the Higgs boson is something like an 'inert on'. Sorry, for some reason, I can't even spell it the way I wanted to here.
 
I saw the answer a little late but it is very interesting. You are touching the other questions I had in mind in this field:

danshawen said:
Don't forget that magnetism is also a "force" to be reckoned with in terms of photon exchange in electromagnetism.

So is magnetism also mediated by a virtual photon?

danshawen said:
EM and the weak nuclear forces have been "unified"

Yes, I read that actually they have a common origin: they used to be the same at an earlier stage of the universe, when temperature was very high, right? But they became different things thereafter, the W and Z bosons mediating radioactive decay and the photon mediating EM force... which look like very different phenomena, however... Well, after all we have common ancestors with the porcupine...

danshawen said:
, which is to say, the W and Z bosons also have something to do with the forces that hold atoms together.

So do you just mean that because photons and W and Z used to be the same "in the past", the latter have something to do with what the former do...? Or rather that W and Z are somehow also contributing in fact to the atom's cohesion, ie that they are also actually doing something to that effect?

danshawen said:
It has been suggested by many that the Higgs boson is itself the carrier of a new fundamental force. Before it was discovered, the foundation of the 'electroweak' force was certainly this particle. But the Higgs mechanism imparts at least inertial mass to electrons, positrons, quarks, antiquarks, W and Z bosons. Prior to its discovery, there was no such force. Particle physicists are somehow more apt to identify gravity with gravitons, than they are to admit that the Higgs boson is something like an 'inert on'. Sorry, for some reason, I can't even spell it the way I wanted to here.

This makes sense to me. Gravity is caused by different forms of energy, which build up the object's mass. For example: the gluon field (strong force) that binds the quarks together contributes to the proton's mass and hence to how strongly the object is attracted/attracts, doesn't it? And if the object is hot, having more kinetic energy, it is more attractive/is attracted more, isn't it? Likewise the intrinsic mass of the electron or of the quarks composing the proton, as given by the Higgs, also contributes to the atom's attractiveness/attractibility, correct? These different phenomena are conceptually unified under the gravitation umbrella and they are said to trigger mediating gravitons. So it looks only logical that that the same energy, when seen as resistance to attraction or inertia, would be unified under the concept of a new "force", called inertia, triggering the mediating particle that you were coining, the "inerton".

One could object that this looks like complication instead of simplification. After all, it is the same force, doing two things at the same time: attracting and resisting. But this resistance is also present when the active side is caused by a different force, eg when two objects are electromagnetically attracted... I am getting a little dizzy by now.
 

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