What is the role of theta in representing polar vectors?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the role of the angle theta in polar coordinates, particularly in the context of representing polar vectors and deriving velocity expressions. It explores the relationship between the position vector, its components, and the implications of motion in polar coordinates.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the position vector in polar coordinates is expressed as \(\mathbf{r}=r\hat{r}\), where \(\hat{\theta}\) does not appear initially.
  • One participant explains that \(\dot{\theta}\) arises from differentiating the unit vector \(\hat{r}\), suggesting a connection to the change in direction of the position vector.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the angle theta becomes relevant when the position vector changes direction, indicating that motion is not purely radial.
  • It is mentioned that the direction of the unit theta vector is normal to the unit r vector, which is a geometric interpretation of their relationship.
  • A participant provides a transformation of polar coordinates into Cartesian coordinates, detailing how the unit vectors \(\hat{r}\) and \(\hat{\theta}\) can be expressed in terms of Cartesian basis vectors, and how their derivatives relate to the velocity expression.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints on the significance of theta in polar coordinates, with some agreeing on its relevance in non-radial motion, while others provide differing perspectives on the utility of polar versus Cartesian coordinates. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the broader implications of these representations.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on the definitions of the unit vectors and the assumptions regarding the nature of motion in polar coordinates. The discussion does not resolve the complexities involved in transitioning between coordinate systems.

Gzyousikai
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It is known that the vector in polar coordinate system can be expressed as \mathbf{r}=r\hat{r}. In this formula, we don't see \hat{\theta} appear.
But after the derivation yielding speed, \mathbf{v}=\dot{r}\hat{r}+r\dot{\theta}\hat{\theta}. Where does theta come from? And how to define its magnitude and direction?
 
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The \dot{θ} appears because of the differentiation of the unit vector \hat{\underline{r}}.
 
Gzyousikai said:
It is known that the vector in polar coordinate system can be expressed as \mathbf{r}=r\hat{r}. In this formula, we don't see \hat{\theta} appear.
But after the derivation yielding speed, \mathbf{v}=\dot{r}\hat{r}+r\dot{\theta}\hat{\theta}. Where does theta come from? And how to define its magnitude and direction?

The angle will turn up if the position vector is changing direction (if motion is not radial).
The direction of the unit theta vector will be normal to the unit r vector.

It can sometimes be difficult to see any point in using anything other than cartesian co ordinates - until you come upon a suitable problem, when it suddenly makes good sense.
 
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You see everything most easily by expressing all vectors in cartesian coordinates. For polar coordinates you have
\vec{r}=r \cos \theta \vec{e}_1 + r \sin \theta \vec{e}_2.
Here, \vec{e}_j are a Cartesian basis, i.e., two fixed orthonormalized vectors in the plane.
Then you get
\hat{r}=\cos \theta \vec{e}_1 + \sin \theta \vec{e}_2, \quad \hat{\theta}=-\sin \theta \vec{e}_1+\cos \theta \vec{e}_2.
The derivatives of the polar unit-basis vectors thus are
\partial_r \hat{r}=0, \quad \partial_{\theta} \hat{r}=\hat{\theta}, \quad \partial_r \hat{\theta}=0, \quad \partial_{\theta} \hat{\theta}=-\hat{r}.
From this you get
\partial_r \vec{r}=\hat{r}, \quad \partial_{\theta} \vec{r}=r \hat{\theta}
and thus, using the product and chain rule
\vec{v}=\frac{\mathrm{d}}{\mathrm{d}t} \vec{r}=\dot{r} \hat{r} + r \dot{\theta} \hat{\theta}.
 
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