What is the rref form of this matrix and for what values of x is it valid?

  • Thread starter Thread starter qwerty5
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Matrix Variables
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

This discussion revolves around a pre-calculus problem involving the row reduction of a matrix containing a variable, x. Participants express confusion regarding the presence of variables in matrices and the implications for solving linear equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants share their attempts at row reducing the matrix and question the validity of their results for different values of x. Some express uncertainty about the nature of the equations represented by the matrix and the role of x within it.

Discussion Status

The discussion includes various interpretations of the matrix and its row-reduced form. Some participants suggest that the matrix can be row reduced for any x except 1 or -1, while others question the reasoning behind equating certain expressions. Guidance has been offered regarding the conditions under which the matrix remains valid.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the absence of explicit instructions in the textbook regarding matrices with variables, leading to confusion about the problem's setup and the nature of linear equations in this context.

qwerty5
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
This is a pre-calculus problem. I don't know if I got the answer right, and I don't quite understand what I'm doing. I read the section several times and understand regular augmented matrices but this problem is confusing me a bit. There is no mention in the text about matrices with variables in the matrices. There is no answer in the back of the book.

Find this matrix in rref form and for what values of x is this valid.

matrix[1 x -1] My work so far:[x 1 -1] Switched order of rows
[x 1 -1] [1 x -1]
[-1 1 x] [-1 1 x] (continues below and to the left)



[0 1-x^2 x-1] added multiples of middle row to other rows
[1 x -1]
[0 x+1 x-1]

Added multiple of top row to middle row, x can't equal 1 or -1 (multiple is x/[(x +1)(x-1)])

[0 1-x^2 x-1]
[1 0 (x/(x+1)) -1]
[0 x+1 x-1]


[0 -(x^2-1) x-1]
[1 0 -1/(x+1)] simplify
[0 x+1 x-1]

[1 0 -1/(x+1)] Simplify to rref. Again, x can’t be 1 or -1
[0 1 -1/(x+1)]
[0 1 (x-1)/(x+1)]


the three systems at this point:

a = -1/(x+1)
b = -1/(x+1)
b = (x-1)/(x+1)

Setting the last to = to each other i get

(1/(x-1)) times (-1-(x-1)) = 0

and x=0, x doesn't equal 1 again


a= -1 and b=-1 plugging in

so i get

[1 0 -1]
[0 1 -1]
[-1 1 0]

and through addition of the first row to the third row

[1 0 -1]
[0 1 -1]
[0 1 -1] for the rref equivalent matrix


I FIND IT WEIRD THAT THE ONLY NUMBER X COULD BE IS 0. AM I WRONG??

Why did the creator of this problem put "x" in the matrix. If you have three variables and three equations, why not make a 3 by 4 augmented matrix?

If I write this out

a + bx = -1
ax + b = -1
-a + b = x

IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE A LINEAR EQUATION? WHY IS IT BEING SOLVED WITH "LINEAR ALGEBRA." Is X only allowed to be a single number (an unknown coefficient)?

Thank you for your help
 
Physics news on Phys.org
qwerty5 said:
This is a pre-calculus problem. I don't know if I got the answer right, and I don't quite understand what I'm doing. I read the section several times and understand regular augmented matrices but this problem is confusing me a bit. There is no mention in the text about matrices with variables in the matrices. There is no answer in the back of the book.

Find this matrix in rref form and for what values of x is this valid.

matrix[1 x -1] My work so far:[x 1 -1] Switched order of rows
[x 1 -1] [1 x -1]
[-1 1 x] [-1 1 x] (continues below and to the left)


Your initial matrix is

[1 x -1]
[x 1 -1]
[-1 1 x]

?
 
qwerty5 said:
This is a pre-calculus problem. I don't know if I got the answer right, and I don't quite understand what I'm doing. I read the section several times and understand regular augmented matrices but this problem is confusing me a bit. There is no mention in the text about matrices with variables in the matrices. There is no answer in the back of the book.

Find this matrix in rref form and for what values of x is this valid.

matrix[1 x -1] My work so far:[x 1 -1] Switched order of rows
[x 1 -1] [1 x -1]
[-1 1 x] [-1 1 x] (continues below and to the left)
So the original matrix is
\left[\begin{array}{ccc} 1 &amp; x &amp; -1 \\ x &amp; 1 &amp; -1 \\ -1 &amp; 1 &amp; x\end{array}\right]<br /> <br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> [0 1-x^2 x-1] added multiples of middle row to other rows<br /> [1 x -1]<br /> [0 x+1 x-1]<br /> <br /> Added multiple of top row to middle row, x can&#039;t equal 1 or -1 (multiple is x/[(x +1)(x-1)])<br /> <br /> [0 1-x^2 x-1]<br /> [1 0 (x/(x+1)) -1]<br /> [0 x+1 x-1]<br /> <br /> <br /> [0 -(x^2-1) x-1]<br /> [1 0 -1/(x+1)] simplify<br /> [0 x+1 x-1]<br /> <br /> [1 0 -1/(x+1)] Simplify to rref. Again, x can’t be 1 or -1<br /> [0 1 -1/(x+1)]<br /> [0 1 (x-1)/(x+1)]<br /> <br /> <br /> the three systems at this point:<br /> <br /> a = -1/(x+1)<br /> b = -1/(x+1)<br /> b = (x-1)/(x+1)<br /> <br /> Setting the last to = to each other i get<br /> <br /> (1/(x-1)) times (-1-(x-1)) = 0 </div> </div> </blockquote> Why would you want them to &quot;equal each other&quot;? There is nothing like that in the problem. Clearly the rref form for this is<br /> \left[\begin{array}{ccc}1 &amp;amp; 0 &amp;amp; 0 \\ 0 &amp;amp; 1 &amp;amp; 0 \\ 0 &amp;amp; 1 &amp;amp; \frac{x-1}{x+1}\end{array}\right]<br /> or simply to<br /> \left[\begin{array}{ccc}1 &amp;amp; 0 &amp;amp; 0 \\ 0 &amp;amp; 1 &amp;amp; 0 \\ 0 &amp;amp; 1 &amp;amp; 1\end{array}\right]<br /> <br /> as long as x is NOT either 1 or -1.<br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> and x=0, x doesn&#039;t equal 1 again<br /> <br /> <br /> a= -1 and b=-1 plugging in<br /> <br /> so i get<br /> <br /> [1 0 -1]<br /> [0 1 -1]<br /> [-1 1 0]<br /> <br /> and through addition of the first row to the third row<br /> <br /> [1 0 -1]<br /> [0 1 -1]<br /> [0 1 -1] for the rref equivalent matrix<br /> <br /> <br /> I FIND IT WEIRD THAT THE ONLY NUMBER X COULD BE IS 0. AM I WRONG?? </div> </div> </blockquote> x is 0 in order that what happens? The problem, as you stated it, was simply to row reduce the matrix. That can be done for any x except 1 or -1.<br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Why did the creator of this problem put &quot;x&quot; in the matrix. If you have three variables and three equations, why not make a 3 by 4 augmented matrix?<br /> <br /> If I write this out<br /> <br /> a + bx = -1<br /> ax + b = -1<br /> -a + b = x<br /> <br /> IT DOESN&#039;T SEEM LIKE A LINEAR EQUATION? WHY IS IT BEING SOLVED WITH &quot;LINEAR ALGEBRA.&quot; Is X only allowed to be a single number (an unknown coefficient)?<br /> <br /> Thank you for your help </div> </div> </blockquote> Nothing was said about equations. A matrix in general does not have to be the &quot;augmented&quot; matrix of any set of equations.
 
Thank you that was very helpful.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
3K
  • · Replies 69 ·
3
Replies
69
Views
11K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K