What is the significance of j2 in this problem?

  • Thread starter Thread starter LongApple
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Response Unit
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the significance of the term j2 in a problem involving z-transforms and finite-difference equations. Participants explore various interpretations and mathematical manipulations related to the problem, including the use of unit impulses and the transformation of equations.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that j2 represents two times the unit imaginary number, equating it to \(\sqrt{-4}\).
  • Others suggest that j2 could be interpreted as 4R/2, indicating a potential relationship with the variable R in the context of the problem.
  • One participant mentions the transformation of the difference equation to derive \(\frac{Y}{X} = \frac{3+4R}{1+R^2}\), noting the role of imaginary numbers in the factorization.
  • A later reply discusses the use of the z-transform, highlighting a difference in notation (using R instead of z) and suggesting that the coursework's approach is conceptually equivalent to standard z-transform methods.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of partial fraction decomposition in managing terms for inversion, while expressing uncertainty about potential mathematical errors in the derivation.
  • One participant confirms the correctness of the last two terms in the solution while pointing out the omission of the impulse term, raising questions about the implications of Y(z) not being a strictly proper fraction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of j2 and the notation used in the problem. There is no consensus on the significance of j2 or the appropriateness of using R in place of z. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the potential mathematical errors and the implications of the omission of the impulse term.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the transformation process and the use of R instead of z may lead to confusion, as standard z-transform tables typically utilize z. Additionally, there are unresolved questions about the derivation and the necessity of certain terms in the solution.

LongApple
Messages
68
Reaction score
0
What's j2 in this problem?

1. Homework Statement


upload_2015-7-8_23-58-48.png


Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution



a. What's j2 in this problem?

b. How did we use the fact that we have a unit impulse?

c. What are our first thoughts and strategies when seeing the problem ?

What is our strategy? It looks like j2 is 4R/2 almost
 
Physics news on Phys.org
LongApple said:
What's j2 in this problem?

1. Homework Statement


View attachment 85706

Homework Equations


The Attempt at a Solution



a. What's j2 in this problem?
I think the j2 is merely two times the unit imaginary number. In other words, it's the same as \left( 2 \right) \left( \sqrt{-1} \right) which is the same thing as saying \sqrt{-4}.

b. How did we use the fact that we have a unit impulse?

c. What are our first thoughts and strategies when seeing the problem ?

What is our strategy? It looks like j2 is 4R/2 almost
You'll have to forgive me for not being more skilled with using the operator expressions. But maybe I can add some insight, albeit just a little bit.

If you're wondering where the \frac{Y}{X} = \frac{3+4R}{1+R^2} came from, it might help by rearranging the original difference equation.
y[n] + y[n-2] = 3x[n] +4x[n-1]
Now transform the equation such that each delay corresponds an R. [n] gets no R, [n-1] corresponds a single R, and [n-2] corresponds to RR = R^2. Now solve for \frac{Y}{X}.

The step where \frac{Y}{X} = \frac{3+4R}{1+R^2} = \frac{\frac{3}{2} - j2}{1-jR} + \frac{\frac{3}{2} + j2}{1+jR} is the result obtained from partial fraction decomposition. Note that 1+R^2 doesn't factor using real numbers. That's where imaginary numbers come in.
 
By the way, it looks like what's being done here is solving the problem by using what's more commonly called the "z-transform." I've never seen it done with Rs as the notation, which is what threw me. It's more commonly notated with zs. Anyway, if you want to investigate further, do some online research on the "z-transform."

[Edit: Oh, and the approach your coursework is using uses positive exponents of R, R^2, etc., where the z transform uses negative exponents, z^{-1}, z^{-2}, etc. So the approach that your coursework is using is a little different than the standard z-transform (although it's conceptually equivalent; just substitute R^n \Leftrightarrow z^{-n}). So that's something else to keep in mind.]
 
Last edited:
Transwform the finite-difference equation into z transform form:
Y(z) + z-2Y(z) = αX(z) + βz-1X(z)
which gives you Y/X (z).
What is the z transform of the given unit impulse function?
Now use partial fractions to decompose the final Y(z) into manageable terms for the purpose of inverting each term.

BTW I haven't done that myself and I suspect their derivation has a math error in it also.
 
EDIT: nope, the given answer for the last 2 terms is correct:

y[n] = 3δ[n] + (3/2 - j2) jn + (3/2 + j2) (-j)n.

But the omission of the impulse term remains. In fact, given that Y(z) is not a "strictly proper" fraction (numerator and denominator order of z same) automatically requires such a term in the finite-difference equation solution.

I also have never seen R used in lieu of z-1 but it seems OK. Not sure what the merit of it is; every z transform table I've encountered is in z, not in R = z-1. To use these tables the substitution R = z-1 and then multiplying num. & denom. by z would have to be made.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
5K