What is the Standard Deviation of the Mean for Lab Homework Data?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the mean current and the standard deviation of the mean from measurements taken with different ammeters, each having associated uncertainties. The participants are exploring the implications of these uncertainties on the calculations and the appropriate methods to use in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the calculation of the mean and standard deviation, questioning the appropriateness of standard formulas when dealing with unequal measurement errors. There is exploration of alternative formulas for mean and variance that account for these uncertainties.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided alternative formulas for calculating the mean and variance, while others are seeking clarification on how to derive variances from given error ranges. The conversation reflects a mix of understanding and uncertainty regarding the application of these formulas.

Contextual Notes

Participants are considering how to interpret the error ranges provided with the measurements, particularly whether to treat them as standard deviations or in another way. There is a recognition that the errors are proportional to the standard deviations, but the specifics of their application remain under discussion.

jumi
Messages
26
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement



Using 5 different ammeters, you get the following data (all measured in Amps):
I_{A} = 128 ± 2
I_{B} = 121 ± 1
I_{C} = 114 ± 8
I_{D} = 120 ± 3
I_{E} = 122 ± 4

Calculate the mean current and the standard deviation of the mean.

Homework Equations



Standard Deviation of the mean: σ_{mean} = \frac{σ_{s}}{\sqrt{N}}

where σ_{s} is the standard deviation.

Quadrature sum for error propagation: Total Error = \sqrt{σ_{1}^{2} + σ_{2}^{2} + σ_{3}^{2} + ...}

Error propagation formula: σ_{p} = \sqrt{(\frac{\partial f}{\partial a})^2σ_{a}^2 + (\frac{\partial f}{\partial b})^2σ_{b}^2 + (\frac{\partial f}{\partial c})^2σ_{c}^2 + ...}, where p = f(a,b,c,...)

The Attempt at a Solution



To get the mean, I added all the data (using the quadrature formula, too) so I could divide by 5.

I got: \overline{I} = \frac{605 ± 9.6954}{5}

To divide that by 5, I used the error propagation formula and got: \overline{I} = 121 ± 2

To get the standard deviation, I would normally get the variance, σ_{s}^2 = \frac{1}{N - 1} \sum (y_{i} - \overline{y} )^2, and take the square root.

But subtracting and squaring each data point with the error propagation would require a lot of arithmetic, and that doesn't seem like the right path...

Is there something I'm doing wrong or an easier method to do this? Or do I just have to grit my teeth and do all the arithmetic...?

Thanks in advance.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
When the errors in the separate measurements are not equal, you do not use the usual equations for mean and standard deviation. Instead, the mean is given as
\mu \approx \frac{\Sigma (x_i/\sigma_i^2)}{\Sigma (1/\sigma_i^2)},
and the variance is
\sigma_\mu^2 \approx \frac{1}{\Sigma(1/\sigma_i^2)}.
 
tms, how would you calculate the σi values from error ranges? Do you assume the error ranges represent standard deviations, or do you take the ranges to represent uniform distributions and compute each s.d. on that basis? (The second sounds right to me.)
 
How would calculate the s.d. from a single number representing the distribution?
 
tms said:
How would calculate the s.d. from a single number representing the distribution?
I don't understand your response. Your advice (which seems reasonable to me) was to obtain a mean by taking a weighted average of the readings, where the weights are derived from the uncertainties in the readings. But in your formula you express those uncertainties as variances, whereas the given uncertainties are in the form ±error. I'm merely asking what procedure you regard as appropriate to derive the variances from the error ranges.
 
I was trying to be Socratic. You suggested assuming the \sigma_is represented uniform distributions and calculating the s.d.s from them. I was trying to suggest that the most reasonable way a single number could represent a distribution is if it were the s.d.

In fact, the \sigma_is are the uncertainties in the measurements. I should have made that explicit.
 
Just realized it makes no difference. So long as the error ranges are proportional to the s.d.s... Doh!
 
Thanks for the replies.

So what exactly should I do? Are the formulas tms posted correct?
 
tms' formula for the mean is certainly valid.
I'm not sure I understand the one for the variance. You have two indicators of variance: the individual error ranges and the scatter of the individual 'central' readings. But tms' formula only seems to involve the former.
 
  • #10
The derivation is in Bevington. Very briefly,
\sigma_\mu^2 = \sum \left[ \sigma_i^2 \left( \frac{\partial \mu}{\partial x_i }\right)^2\right].
When the uncertainties are unequal, evaluate the derivative using the equation for the mean given above.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
6K