What is the transfer function for this system?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the transfer function for a system modeling echo effects in long-distance telephone communication. Participants explore the impulse response and its implications for the system function, including the associated region of convergence.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the impulse response as \(h(t) = \alpha\ \delta(t - T) + \alpha^{3}\ \delta (t - 3\ T)\) and derives the transfer function \(H(s) = \alpha\ e^{- s\ T} + \alpha^{3}\ e^{- 3\ s\ T}\).
  • Another participant questions how to represent \(H\) in terms of zeros and poles, suggesting that \(H\) can only be zero if \(\alpha = 0\) or \(\pm i\).
  • There is a claim that \(H(s)\) does not have zeros or poles but consists solely of 'pure delays'.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the representation of the transfer function in terms of zeros and poles, with no consensus reached on the implications of the derived function.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not resolved the implications of the conditions under which \(H\) can be zero or the nature of 'pure delays' in the context of the transfer function.

Dustinsfl
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In a long-distance telephone communication, an echo is sometimes encountered due to the transmitted signal being reflected at the receiver, sent back down the line, reflected again at the transmitter, and returned to the receiver. The impulse response for a system that modles this effect is shown in figure, where we have assumed tat only one echo is received. The parameter \(T\) corresponds to the one-way travel time along the communication channel, and the parameter \(\alpha\) represents the attenuation in amplitude between transmitter and receiver.
View attachment 2099
Determine the system function \(H(s)\) and associated region of convergence for the system.

How can I determine a transfer function from this?
 

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dwsmith said:
In a long-distance telephone communication, an echo is sometimes encountered due to the transmitted signal being reflected at the receiver, sent back down the line, reflected again at the transmitter, and returned to the receiver. The impulse response for a system that modles this effect is shown in figure, where we have assumed tat only one echo is received. The parameter \(T\) corresponds to the one-way travel time along the communication channel, and the parameter \(\alpha\) represents the attenuation in amplitude between transmitter and receiver.
View attachment 2099
Determine the system function \(H(s)\) and associated region of convergence for the system.

How can I determine a transfer function from this?

Is...

$\displaystyle h(t) = \alpha\ \delta(t - T) + \alpha^{3}\ \delta (t - 3\ T)\ (1)$

... so that...

$\displaystyle H(s) = \alpha\ e^{- s\ T} + \alpha^{3}\ e^{- 3\ s\ T}\ (2)$

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
chisigma said:
Is...

$\displaystyle h(t) = \alpha\ \delta(t - T) + \alpha^{3}\ \delta (t - 3\ T)\ (1)$

... so that...

$\displaystyle H(s) = \alpha\ e^{- s\ T} + \alpha^{3}\ e^{- 3\ s\ T}\ (2)$

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$

We know that exponential are never zero. How can we represent \(H\) in terms of zeros and poles? The only time I see that \(H\) can be zero is if \(\alpha = 0, \pm i\) but is that right?
 
dwsmith said:
We know that exponential are never zero. How can we represent \(H\) in terms of zeros and poles? The only time I see that \(H\) can be zero is if \(\alpha = 0, \pm i\) but is that right?

The answer is very simple: in this case H(s) doesn't have neither zeros neither poles but only 'pure delays'...

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 

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