What is the underlying phenomenon of waves?

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    Phenomenon Waves
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the underlying phenomena of waves, exploring connections to heat diffusion and the nature of particle motion in various types of waves. Participants examine different wave types, including mechanical and electromagnetic waves, and their dependence on media properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants draw parallels between heat diffusion and wave phenomena, questioning if a similar statistical connection exists for waves.
  • There is a discussion about the ordered motion of particles in matter waves, contrasting this with random motion.
  • Participants mention various types of waves, including electromagnetic, mechanical, longitudinal, shear, and surface waves, highlighting their dependence on the properties of the media through which they propagate.
  • One participant suggests that individual particles may move randomly, but a forcing function is necessary for bulk movement as an ensemble.
  • Some participants express a desire for simpler explanations or specific mathematical models related to waves.
  • There is a distinction made between classical waves, which require substance motion, and quantum mechanical waves, which do not rely on such motions.
  • One participant emphasizes that electromagnetic waves are classical until quantization is considered.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of waves, their underlying mechanisms, and the relationship between particle motion and wave phenomena. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various mathematical models and examples, but the discussion includes limitations regarding the assumptions made about wave types and their foundational principles.

accdd
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Heat diffusion is caused by randomly moving particles. So there is a connection between the diffusion equation and the statistical motion of particles. Is there something similar for waves?
 
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accdd said:
Heat diffusion is caused by randomly moving particles. So there is a connection between the diffusion equation and the statistical motion of particles. Is there something similar for waves?
You have Planck's law? Apologies this is level I so my ref was probably not very useful
 
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I changed the level to B, so I can understand
 
pinball1970
Sorry, maybe I misunderstood your message because I am using a translator.

Do you have an advanced level explanation? If yes please write it down, I will try to understand. Thank you.
 
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Particles in a matter wave (like sound wave, water wave) do not move completely randomly, rather they do ordered motion according to the wave motion. Clearly we can see that in a water wave.
 
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What I mean is: is it possible to do something like this: "" -min 3- with waves?
 
accdd said:
Heat diffusion is caused by randomly moving particles. So there is a connection between the diffusion equation and the statistical motion of particles. Is there something similar for waves?
What kind of waves? One could discuss electromagnetic waves, or mechanical waves, and even with mechanical, we can discuss longitudinal waves, shear waves, surface waves, all of which depend on the media through which the waves propagate, the physcial (density) and mechanical (elastic) properties of that media. It's reflects the propagation or dispersion of momentum and energy from the excitation, a thermal pulse, a mechanical impulse, or a more sustained excitation, e.g., wind on the surface of water (or gas on a liquid). We could discuss acoustical sound waves, or ultrasonic waves, or shock waves, the latter being very complicated.

Some general mathematics of waves can be found here.
https://phys.libretexts.org/Bookshe...d_Oscillations_and_Waves_(OpenStax)/16:_Waves

A more focused discussion of surface waves might involve for example, the Korteweg–De Vries (KdV) equation, a mathematical model of waves on shallow water surfaces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korteweg–De_Vries_equation
 
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accdd said:
What I mean is: is it possible to do something like this: "" -min 3- with waves?

Individual particles would still be moving randomly on a local basis, but you would have to add in some sort of forcing function to take care of the bulk movement as an ensemble.
So it seems particle interactions, which the video guy ( first time I have seen what he looks like ) ignores for the random walk., would have to be taken into account.
 
Astronuc.
The simplest wave equation is enough for me.
 
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In classical physics waves require motions of substances, e.g. motion pattern of soils in different places for earthquake, sea water molecules for tsunami, air gas molecules for sound waves. Can you imagine waves without these substances motions ? ( QM waves including EM waves have another foundation.)
 
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  • #11
anuttarasammyak said:
In classical physics waves require motions of substances, e.g. motion pattern of soils in different places for earthquake, sea water molecules for tsunami, air gas molecules for sound waves. Can you imagine waves without these substances motions ? ( QM waves including EM waves have another foundation.)
Electromagnetic waves are classical waves. There is nothing quantum about them until you want to quantize the EM field.
 
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  • #12
In context of OP question, I should have said that EM waves as well as probability amplitude in QM have no substances or media mechanical motion of which correspond to the waves.
 
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