B What is the underlying phenomenon of waves?

  • B
  • Thread starter Thread starter accdd
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Phenomenon Waves
AI Thread Summary
The discussion explores the relationship between particle motion and wave phenomena, particularly questioning if a diffusion-like model exists for waves similar to heat diffusion caused by randomly moving particles. It highlights that while particles in waves exhibit ordered motion, the type of wave—such as electromagnetic or mechanical—affects their propagation and the underlying mechanics. The conversation also touches on the necessity of considering particle interactions and forcing functions for understanding wave behavior. Additionally, it distinguishes between classical waves, which require a medium, and quantum mechanical waves, which do not rely on substance motion. Overall, the dialogue emphasizes the complexity of wave dynamics and the mathematical models that describe them.
accdd
Messages
95
Reaction score
20
Heat diffusion is caused by randomly moving particles. So there is a connection between the diffusion equation and the statistical motion of particles. Is there something similar for waves?
 
  • Like
Likes Delta2
Physics news on Phys.org
accdd said:
Heat diffusion is caused by randomly moving particles. So there is a connection between the diffusion equation and the statistical motion of particles. Is there something similar for waves?
You have Planck's law? Apologies this is level I so my ref was probably not very useful
 
  • Like
Likes accdd
I changed the level to B, so I can understand
 
pinball1970
Sorry, maybe I misunderstood your message because I am using a translator.

Do you have an advanced level explanation? If yes please write it down, I will try to understand. Thank you.
 
  • Like
Likes pinball1970
Particles in a matter wave (like sound wave, water wave) do not move completely randomly, rather they do ordered motion according to the wave motion. Clearly we can see that in a water wave.
 
  • Like
Likes pinball1970 and accdd
What I mean is: is it possible to do something like this: "" -min 3- with waves?
 
accdd said:
Heat diffusion is caused by randomly moving particles. So there is a connection between the diffusion equation and the statistical motion of particles. Is there something similar for waves?
What kind of waves? One could discuss electromagnetic waves, or mechanical waves, and even with mechanical, we can discuss longitudinal waves, shear waves, surface waves, all of which depend on the media through which the waves propagate, the physcial (density) and mechanical (elastic) properties of that media. It's reflects the propagation or dispersion of momentum and energy from the excitation, a thermal pulse, a mechanical impulse, or a more sustained excitation, e.g., wind on the surface of water (or gas on a liquid). We could discuss acoustical sound waves, or ultrasonic waves, or shock waves, the latter being very complicated.

Some general mathematics of waves can be found here.
https://phys.libretexts.org/Bookshe...d_Oscillations_and_Waves_(OpenStax)/16:_Waves

A more focused discussion of surface waves might involve for example, the Korteweg–De Vries (KdV) equation, a mathematical model of waves on shallow water surfaces.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korteweg–De_Vries_equation
 
  • Informative
  • Like
Likes pinball1970, Delta2 and accdd
accdd said:
What I mean is: is it possible to do something like this: "" -min 3- with waves?

Individual particles would still be moving randomly on a local basis, but you would have to add in some sort of forcing function to take care of the bulk movement as an ensemble.
So it seems particle interactions, which the video guy ( first time I have seen what he looks like ) ignores for the random walk., would have to be taken into account.
 
Astronuc.
The simplest wave equation is enough for me.
 
  • #10
In classical physics waves require motions of substances, e.g. motion pattern of soils in different places for earthquake, sea water molecules for tsunami, air gas molecules for sound waves. Can you imagine waves without these substances motions ? ( QM waves including EM waves have another foundation.)
 
  • Like
Likes Delta2
  • #11
anuttarasammyak said:
In classical physics waves require motions of substances, e.g. motion pattern of soils in different places for earthquake, sea water molecules for tsunami, air gas molecules for sound waves. Can you imagine waves without these substances motions ? ( QM waves including EM waves have another foundation.)
Electromagnetic waves are classical waves. There is nothing quantum about them until you want to quantize the EM field.
 
  • Like
Likes malawi_glenn, Delta2 and anuttarasammyak
  • #12
In context of OP question, I should have said that EM waves as well as probability amplitude in QM have no substances or media mechanical motion of which correspond to the waves.
 
  • Like
Likes Delta2
Back
Top