What is the value of the fine structure constant at Planck energy?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the value of the fine structure constant at the Planck energy, exploring its behavior under different energy scales and the implications of renormalization. Participants examine theoretical aspects, potential unknown variables, and mathematical formulations related to this topic.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that the fine structure constant is approximately 1/137.036 at low energy and question its value at the Planck energy.
  • Others mention that according to the renormalization group theory, the fine structure constant increases logarithmically with energy, with the observed value associated with the energy scale of the electron mass.
  • It is suggested that the value at the Planck energy could depend on the existence of undiscovered charged particles with masses below the Planck scale.
  • Some participants argue that above the W mass, it is more relevant to discuss the SU(2) X U(1) coupling constants rather than the electromagnetic coupling, although a formal definition of the fine structure constant can still be made.
  • One participant emphasizes that no one currently knows the value at the Planck scale, as it would require summing all diagrams to all orders of perturbation theory, but provides a second-order correction formula for the fine structure constant.
  • Another participant expresses frustration over the necessity of leaving certain functions in integral form, noting that while the fine structure constant remains valid, corrections would be measurable at the Planck energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the exact value of the fine structure constant at the Planck energy is unknown and that it involves complex calculations. However, there are competing views regarding the implications of undiscovered particles and the relevance of different coupling constants at higher energies.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the existence of potential undiscovered particles and the unresolved nature of certain mathematical steps in perturbation theory.

heinz
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At low energy, the value is around 1/137.036. What is the value at the Planck energy? Is it listed somewhere?

After all, the renormalization of the charge (as it is also called) is mentioned everywhere. But numbers are rare ...

Hz
 
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No specific answer but this is interesting:

According to the theory of the renormalization group, the value of the fine structure constant (the strength of the electromagnetic interaction) grows logarithmically as the energy scale is increased. The observed value of α is associated with the energy scale of the electron mass; the electron is a lower bound for this energy scale because it (and the positron) is the lightest charged object whose quantum loops can contribute to the running. Therefore 1/137.036 is the value of the fine structure constant at zero energy.

via wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-s...the_fine_structure_constant_truly_constant.3F
 
heinz said:
At low energy, the value is around 1/137.036. What is the value at the Planck energy?
It depends on whether there are any presently-undiscovered charged particles with masses below the Planck scale. Also, above the W mass (~80 GeV), it makes more sense to talk about the SU(2) X U(1) coupling constants g2 and g1, rather than the electromagnetic coupling e, though we can still formally define it via 1/e^2 = 1/g2^2 + 1/g1^2. Because of all this, no one bothers to compute the formal value of alpha at the Planck scale.
 
heinz said:
At low energy, the value is around 1/137.036. What is the value at the Planck energy? Is it listed somewhere

The answer is definitely that no one knows because it would involve summing all the diagrams to all orders of perturbation theory. I can, however, give you the second order correction:

[tex]\alpha(q^2) = \alpha(0)(1 + \frac{\alpha(0)}{3\pi}f(\frac{-q^2}{m^2c^2}))[/tex]

where:

[tex] q^2 = -4|p|^2 sin(\theta / 2)[/tex]
[tex] f(x) = 6 \int_0^1 z(1-z) ln(1 + x z(1 - z)) dz[/tex]

It's irritating that we have to leave f(x) in the form of an integral that cannot be reduced to elementary functions, but the asymptotic behaviors are f(x) = x/5 when x << 1 and f(x) = ln(x) when x >> 1. As you can see, 1/137 is still pretty much as valid as ever, although the corrections would be measurable if we could get up to the Planck energy.
 
Last edited:
Civilized said:
The answer is definitely that no one knows because it would involve summing all the diagrams to all orders of perturbation theory. I can, however, give you the second order correction:

[tex]\alpha(q^2) = \alpha(0)(1 + \frac{\alpha(0)}{3\pi}f(\frac{-q^2}{m^2c^2}))[/tex]

where:

[tex] q^2 = -4|p|^2 sin(\theta / 2)[/tex]
[tex] f(x) = 6 \int_0^1 z(1-z) ln(1 + x z(1 - z)) dz[/tex]

It's irritating that we have to leave f(x) in the form of an integral that cannot be reduced to elementary functions, but the asymptotic behaviors are f(x) = x/5 when x << 1 and f(x) = ln(x) when x >> 1. As you can see, 1/137 is still pretty much as valid as ever, although the corrections would be measurable if we could get up to the Planck energy.

Thank you! And what are p and theta?

Hz
 

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