What makes a particle distinguishable from another one? It seems, two

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of particle distinguishability, exploring what criteria make one particle distinguishable from another. It touches on theoretical aspects, implications of quantum mechanics, and specific examples involving different types of particles, including neutrinos, protons, and neutrons.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that distinguishability can be based on observable properties such as mass or charge, but question the certainty of this distinction when particles can change into one another, like neutrinos.
  • One participant suggests that quantum collapse plays a role in making indistinguishable particles distinguishable at the moment of measurement, raising questions about the nature of distinguishability over time.
  • Another participant points out that protons and neutrons can be distinguished due to their differing electric charge, despite both being composite particles.
  • A participant references the OPERA experiment, noting that muon neutrinos can be distinguished from tau neutrinos based on the type of particle produced upon interaction with matter.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the comparison of a neutron to a hydrogen atom, highlighting differences in mass, charge distribution, and interactions that contribute to their distinguishability.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the criteria for distinguishability, with some asserting that observable properties suffice, while others emphasize the role of quantum mechanics and measurement. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature and boundaries of distinguishability.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of distinguishability and the implications of quantum mechanics, which are not fully resolved in the discussion.

Khashishi
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What makes a particle distinguishable from another one? It seems, two different kinds of particles ought to be distinguishable due to different mass or charge or other observable property. But, if particles can change into each other, like neutrinos, it's not clear that we can ever be 100% sure that we can distinguish them. Even heavier particles like neutrons and protons--can we distinguish a neutron from a proton and an electron? Does the concept of distinguishability have a fuzzy boundary, or can it be exactly decided?

Is this the same problem as the question of quantum collapse? In a neutron decay scenario, a neutron can be distinguished from a proton and an electron when a measurement is made which collapses the wavefunction. So it seems like objects are distinguishable if we have previously collapsed them into states that ought to look sufficiently different over the course of the experiment. But if we wait too long without making a measurement, we couldn't really distinguish a hydrogen atom from a neutron, could we?

Quantum collapse seems to make indistinguishable things into distinguishable. Or maybe, there are no distinguishable things-they only seem so over a certain span of time.
 
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Well in the proton/neutron example (which aren't fundamental particles by the way, but that doesn't matter), protons have an electric charge and neutrons don't, and its very easy to distinguish between a particle with a charge and one without.
 


In the well-known OPERA experiment, a beam of muon neutrinos travels from CERN to Gran Sasso. Some of them turn into tau neutrinos along the way, and are detected. How do you tell whether a neutrino is a muon neutrino or a tau neutrino? By their interaction. If a muon neutrino strikes an atom in the detector it produces (guess what!) a muon. A tau neutrino on the other hand produces a tau particle, which leaves a totally different track.
 


Vorde, I meant to compare neutron to the set (proton and an electron) which has 0 charge.
 


Khashishi said:
Vorde, I meant to compare neutron to the set (proton and an electron) which has 0 charge.

A neutron and the set you are indicating (I think you're meaning proton and electron bound state, say an hydrogen atom in his fundamental state) have very different properties that makes them distinguishable.
Neutron and hydrogen fundamental state have, for example:

- different masses;
- different charge distribution;
- different electro-weak and strong interaction.

There are many other differences, but I think you got the point :smile:

Ilm
 

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