How does polarisation affect a lit candle near a Van de Graaff Generator?

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The discussion centers on the behavior of a lit candle flame in proximity to a Van de Graaff Generator. When the generator is activated, the flame deflects away from the collector due to the flow of positive ions, demonstrating the principles of electrostatic forces and polarization. Close to the collector, the flame can be attracted due to the separation of charges within the flame, which contains carbon and other molecules. Participants highlight the role of diamagnetism in carbon and the concept of inductive attraction as key factors influencing the flame's movement.

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"Bring a lit candle near the collector after the Van de Graaff Generator is turned on. The flame will deflect away from the collector. This shows the flow of ions away from the collector. If you bring the flame very close, a portion of the flame will be attracted toward the collector. The ions in the flame are separating by charge."

Does anyone have any suggestions on why this lit candle deflect away from collector and attracted toward the collector? I get no clue.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions
 
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oem7110 said:
"Bring a lit candle near the collector after the Van de Graaff Generator is turned on. The flame will deflect away from the collector. This shows the flow of ions away from the collector. If you bring the flame very close, a portion of the flame will be attracted toward the collector. The ions in the flame are separating by charge."

Does anyone have any suggestions on why this lit candle deflect away from collector and attracted toward the collector? I get no clue.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions

My 5 cents:
The carbon in the flame is diamagnetic. Approaching a neodym magnet close to a candle light, will deflect the flame too, but it will not attract to the magnet if it get close enough.

The ions have a positive charge, and charge the carbon (possibly) with the same charge, and therefor it deflects away. If the flame is close enough it might be attracted to the negative charge very close to the collector(?). I mean if ions is flowing out from the generator, there should be equal opposite charge from where ions came from (??).

I have an "ionizer" that is used to reduce dust in the air. I will try this experiment when I get home :smile:

Vidar
 
Low-Q said:
My 5 cents:
The carbon in the flame is diamagnetic. Approaching a neodym magnet close to a candle light, will deflect the flame too, but it will not attract to the magnet if it get close enough.

The ions have a positive charge, and charge the carbon (possibly) with the same charge, and therefor it deflects away. If the flame is close enough it might be attracted to the negative charge very close to the collector(?). I mean if ions is flowing out from the generator, there should be equal opposite charge from where ions came from (??).

I have an "ionizer" that is used to reduce dust in the air. I will try this experiment when I get home :smile:

Vidar

I would like to know more about the property of the frame, which carbon in the flame is diamagnetic. Is there any positive or negative charges on flame? is frame neutral in charges? What process is going on within the frame? C + O2 = CO2 I guess, any free electrons?
Does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks you very much for any suggestions
 
There must be two different effects at work here.

I think that, when the flame is close, the particles (bits of carbon and other molecules etc.) become polarised and this works in the same way that dust and pieces of paper are attracted to a charged comb: one polarity of charge is nearer than the other polarity - producing attraction. I think it's called inductive attraction and it's why dust doesn't need to actually carry a charge to be attracted.

When the flame is further away, this electrostatic attraction is much less and the flow of ions away from the generator will 'blow' the flame away.
 
sophiecentaur said:
There must be two different effects at work here.

I think that, when the flame is close, the particles (bits of carbon and other molecules etc.) become polarised and this works in the same way that dust and pieces of paper are attracted to a charged comb: one polarity of charge is nearer than the other polarity - producing attraction. I think it's called inductive attraction and it's why dust doesn't need to actually carry a charge to be attracted.

When the flame is further away, this electrostatic attraction is much less and the flow of ions away from the generator will 'blow' the flame away.

Does it mean that the mass of positive ions from collector physically hit and move the Carbon within flame? so it makes ion blowing the flame away. I don't know whether this is any charges on burning carbon or not. Before carbon becomes CO2, does burning Carbon carry any charges at all?
Does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks everyone very much for any suggestions
 
Why would there have to be a charge on the carbon? When C and O atoms combine, a covalent bond forms (no?). Why introduce ionisation? However, polarisation is a much more likely effect. Imho.
 
oem7110 said:
Does anyone have any suggestions on why this lit candle deflect away from collector and attracted toward the collector?
This. http://www.plasma-universe.com/Flame"
 
Last edited by a moderator:
NascentOxygen said:
This. http://www.plasma-universe.com/Flame"

Referring to your link, candle flame is a plasma, which carry positive ions.

When you bring the flame very close, a portion of the flame will be attracted toward the collector. The ions in the flame are separating by charge.Is polarisation is a much more likely effect?

Does anyone have any suggestions how to explain what is going on during polarisation?

Furthermore, will the flame release positive ions into air through smoke? since the candle is neutral iniitially, where does negative ions go in this situation?

Thanks everyone very much for any suggestions
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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