What values of n make this system a proper thermodynamic system?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of a "proper thermodynamic system" and the conditions under which a given system, defined by specific equations, meets this criterion. Participants explore the implications of the first and second laws of thermodynamics and seek to clarify the meaning of the term in a thermodynamic context.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that a proper thermodynamic system relates to the first law or second law of thermodynamics, specifically referencing the condition ##dS \ge 0##, indicating that entropy should not decrease.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of the original question and suggests that the term "proper thermodynamic system" may not have a strict technical definition, implying it refers to any system that adheres to thermodynamic principles.
  • A later post introduces a specific system defined by equations involving ##u, p, v, T,## and a parameter ##n##, raising the question of what values of ##n## would classify the system as proper.
  • The same participant proposes a condition derived from the entropy equation, suggesting that ##n \ge constant/(av^3 \ln T)##, and infers that as ##T## approaches infinity, this implies ##n \ge 0##, though they express uncertainty about this conclusion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the definition of a "proper thermodynamic system" or the implications of the derived condition for ##n##. There are competing interpretations of the term and uncertainty regarding the mathematical conclusions drawn.

Contextual Notes

There is ambiguity in the definitions and assumptions regarding what constitutes a proper thermodynamic system. The discussion also reflects uncertainty about the application of thermodynamic laws and the implications of the derived inequalities.

MathematicalPhysicist
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I have this question that in it there's this expression "A proper Thermodynamic system".

I thought that means that the first law (or is it the second) that ##dS \ge 0##, i.e. the change of entropy always increase.

But I am not sure, can someone clear to me this matter?

Thanks in advance.
 
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Have you tried looking it up? Your question can be answered in a second of searching on the internet.
 
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I tried searching google, and didn't find the exact phrasing:"A proper Thermodynamic system" then what is it?
 
I guess I didn't understand your question. I thought you were confused by what the first and second laws of thermodynamics are, since you got them mixed up above. You still should look them up for that reason.
I think you are expecting a technical definition for "proper thermodynamic system", when it just means proper "thermodynamic system", where proper is just a non-technical English word, and thermodynamic system is just a system that obeys thermodynamics, which is basically anything that isn't some make-believe model.
 
I have this question which I don't know how to start with and the teacher assistant isn't well responsive in the email.

Maybe you know better than me:

We have: the equations of system: ##u =3/2 pv , p=av T^n##, I first was ask to find ##T(u,v), p(u,v)## which I found (##n## is an integer and ##a## some constant).
Now I am asked to find for which values of ##n## is the system a proper theormodynamic system?

I thought of using ##dS \ge 0## in the end I got that: ##n \ge constant/ (av^3 \ln T)##, I thought that since should be valid for every ##T>0## then when ##T\ to \infty## we get: ##n \ge 0##, but I am not sure.

Do you know of this problem before?
I searched my reference with no help.
 

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