What would be proof that God exists?

[deda]

Proof enough for me that god, which in my opinion is nothing, exists is the necesity of balance.

 

[xt]

It really depends on what you define god is.

If one claims the originator of everything is god or everything is a part of god, then god must exist.

But this type of god is not the one that we associate with religiously, its just a general philosophical definition of everything or origin of the universe.

People who argue for or against the existence of god seem to confuse the two types together, for example a religious person would argue: "if god did not exist then what created everything? is there no explanation? and things move therefore there must be a first mover... god." The argument is logical, but that person is missing the whole point. Most people who don't believe in the "religious" god, don't believe it because they can't see how the fictional type stuff like heaven and hell really exists without any evidence at all.

Its the "definition" of god that people's views differ on.

Religion and Science are both ways to explain how the universe works. Science is based on deterministic principles while religion is based on elementary human intuition.

 

[olde drunk]

Proof Is Impossible

I've said it before and i will say it again: "it is impossible to prove anything".

all we can do is list the reasons why we believe what we believe.

even when a carpenter with a laser ruler says that a board is 12' long, you can not prove he is right. cause, you can't prove that he, the ruler and board exist.

scientific proof is an agreement, to inderstand and manipulate the physical.

better to ask if one believes in a god and then ask for an explanation.

love & peace,

 

[TENYEARS]

It really depends on what you define god is.

If one claims the originator of everything is god or everything is a part of god, then god must exist.

But this type of god is not the one that we associate with religiously, its just a general philosophical definition of everything or origin of the universe.

People who argue for or against the existence of god seem to confuse the two types together, for example a religious person would argue: "if god did not exist then what created everything? is there no explanation? and things move therefore there must be a first mover... god." The argument is logical, but that person is missing the whole point. Most people who don't believe in the "religious" god, don't believe it because they can't see how the fictional type stuff like heaven and hell really exists without any evidence at all.

Its the "definition" of god that people's views differ on.

Religion and Science are both ways to explain how the universe works. Science is based on deterministic principles while religion is based on elementary human intuition.

What makes you think it's fictional or not logical? I could diagram the reality of the universe for you. It is what is, but you would have to believe me would you not, unless of course you experienced it for yourself. 17 bone heads also said ah yes, it's real we have scientifc proof and yet you would still believe. 6,000,000,000 humans may also say ah yes it is true, but you would still believe. There is no substitue for experience, because experience is what is.

 

[ray b]

Lorentz,

I think we can read about how God has done some of the type of miracles I think you are looking for throughout the Bible. The ten plagues in Egypt, the parting of the Red Sea, the pillar of fire, burning bush, water from the rock, parting of the Jordan. What kinds of things were predicted and actually happened when Christ was around? sick healed, lame walk, blind receive sight, dead brought back to life, large crowds fed with almost no food, walking on water.

The Pharisees also demanded a sign from Jesus and this is what he told them:

Matthew 12:8-42 ?Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." 39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; 40 for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 "The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here. 42 "The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the Earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here.?

The point being that the Jews who demanded a sign of Christ's authority would have it in the form of history and that Gentiles would be converted and saved before the Jews.

A while later in Jesus? ministry, in Mark, we can read about Jesus healing a man in front of the Pharisees eyes. The response of the Pharisees to this miracle, this sign, is that they immediately begin plotting to kill Jesus. Even when they got the miracle they asked for, they did not believe. These people asked for a sign with the wrong motives, and so they did not get it.

I think that apply this today we can see a possible connection. People in this country have become very enamored with the sciences (which is not a bad thing). But as I said earlier, I think that if God did perform one of these miraculous physical signs, most people would respond not by praising God, but by attempting to figure out what scientific phenomena caused it. I think that most of the miracles that can be seen today in this country are in personal change, relationships, etc, because people can?t explain away these changes with science as easily. They are more willing to accept the possibility that God was involved.

the signs in egypt could be natural random events, and are not backed up by the records of the kingdom of egypt, in fact there is no mention of the jews or their leaving or the death of every first born is recorded and the bible never even names the pharroh so the whole thing is undateable
then the jews travel into the holyland and claim to subdue a land that in fact is a egyptian border land and under their control and rule and once again the egyptian records do not notice this?

3 days and 3 nights for JC in the earth?
btw there never was a man named jesus the name some "HOPE TO BE SAVED BY"
his mom called him ya-sho-wa modern name is joshua, and the name jesus is an tranlation ERROR
he "DIED" late friday,after only a few hours on the cross, note most people took several DAYS to die on the cross, then the body was taken down something prohibided by roman law, as the body was to rot in place, and was laid to rest just before the sundown beginning of the sabbath and he was up and gone by sunday morning sunrize that is two nights and ONE DAY by my count about 36 hours total, then moved to france with mary mags, without ever showing himself to the people or the rulers who "KILLED" him but only a few brief appearances to the faithfull ONLY, again with no offical notice, or record

IF there is a god, and he has a plan he wants me to follow , he would need to tell me about it, HIMSELF, not send some men to claim to know gods will

a brief study of the history of the claimed "MEN OF GOD" will quickly show no hand of god in the work of the church, only evil and greed in the power they misuse

 

[Josephus]

Proof of the Existence of God

Dear, certainly there are many physical proofs of the existence of God, one of them is the science religion. Mostof the followers of scientists just believe what they say, without any physical and real proof:

How did Johannes Kepler to measure the distances between any 'planet' and the sun and to be sure of his eliptical distances?

What single proof presented Galileo of his movements?

If Newton did not know G how could he determine the F=GMm/r2?

The Optic Gyroscope works because the movement of the source of light affects the velocity of light, the opposite of the teaching of the false genius Einstein.

In the document http://geocities.com/jesuselcristos/hoaxology.html

you should find more of science hoaxology

 

[heusdens]

It really depends on what you define god is.

If one claims the originator of everything is god or everything is a part of god, then god must exist.

Wrong!

Such an all encompassing being ('the everything') does not and can not exist, which can be explained using subtle logic.

To conclude that any specific thing exist, we must normally make an observation. It always requires there to be other things, which are independend and apart from the thing to observe.

We can't claim that the universe exists in the same way, since we aren't outside observers to the universe. We are part of it.

The universe does not exist alongside other things, and as such, we can not make any observations about the universe, we can only observe finite parts of the universe.

The universe itself is not distinguishable from nothing, it hasn't any physical properties.

 

[olde drunk]

Wrong!

Such an all encompassing being ('the everything') does not and can not exist, which can be explained using subtle logic.

To conclude that any specific thing exist, we must normally make an observation. It always requires there to be other things, which are independend and apart from the thing to observe.

We can't claim that the universe exists in the same way, since we aren't outside observers to the universe. We are part of it.

The universe does not exist alongside other things, and as such, we can not make any observations about the universe, we can only observe finite parts of the universe.

The universe itself is not distinguishable from nothing, it hasn't any physical properties.

aren't we also outside the 'physical' universe at this very moment? i submit that we exist on many levels and the non-physical self can observe our physical universe and pass on this information to the consciouness of the physical being.

aren't there many parallel universes existing with us at this moment?? i believe we get caught up with the physical universe and limit our thinking to what we can see and touch. we are more! we can 'sense and feel'. i can easily accept that this physical universe of ours is but a portion of the UNIVERSE or omniverse that i sense exists.

will you agree that the uni-omni-verse includes our physical universe? it may be time for us to come up with a term that defines the physical universe(s) and another for the totality of all that exists within infinity/eternity?

love and peace,
olde drunk

 

[Mudvaynelethaldosage]

there's a concept I think we should all recognize. Each person has his own beliefs. If you line up 10 christians and ask them what exactly is Christianity? What are the morals? What does God look like? All that bull****, you're going to get 10 different, but similar answers. Same with 10 Buddhists or Muslims. An individuals perception of Gods image is altered by his life experiences. A persons past does to their religious views, what hardware does to software. An individual may read the bible (software), but get a different idea because of who he/she (hardware) is.
There also happens to be many individuals that are not Christians, but pretend to be so people will respect them (not me). When they do something sleazy, this makes people hate Christians.
Some Christians are complete idiots that try to force their uneducated opinions on others, but some are decent, misled, people.
I happen to be Atheist. I don't believe there is a god. It's hard to think how the whole world, space, ect. could've been created to how it is without someone to govern, though. I know about nebulas and all that ****, but how was the matter created in the first place? This just leads to so many questions. The answers to these questions many find is God.
I'm totally fine with the love and peace thing, but many people take religion too seriously to be peaceful about it, including me. I get really angry when people try to create religious views into law. I'm fine if people leave me out of their ignorance. I actually know a Christian girl. I admire the fact that she keeps her religion to herself. I speak out against religion in public a lot. I cut it out around her though, because she's shown the respect not to try to convert me. It is true that I will speak out against religion with people present that aren't forcing there religion on me. I'm making it sound like I set up a stage in front of the mall, lol.
I have a friend that is a Satanist. I agree with a lot of his ideas. He's not the stereotype of a Satanist. He does not sacrifice goats, or burn churches down. He does have a good understanding of balance though.

I'll get to my summary, everyone has their own individual religious view. While some may be similar, no two people have the exact same religious views. Some people use the Christian name so people will trust them, giving Christians a bad reputation in some cases. Although I'm Atheist, it seems as if there had to have been a god at some point in time. I think religion is fine if it promotes love and peace, even Satanism.

Trash comes in all wrappers. Black, white, mexican, blonde hair, brown eyes, gay, straight, gothic, punk, Christian, Satanist, Jewish, young, old, rich, poor. Some races, lifestyles, ages, religions, ect. have a higher percentile of trash if you line up 100 of that type of person. That's all I am saying for now, I could go on and on into other topics or stay on the religion. Thank you for reading.

also, whomever wrote "I certainly can't accept that there is a loving and just god that
would allow someone to suffer for eternity. Justice implies a proportionality between crime and punishment, no finite crime balances against an infinite punishment." That is very well put. You have an excellent sense of balance.

 

[heusdens]

aren't we also outside the 'physical' universe at this very moment? i submit that we exist on many levels and the non-physical self can observe our physical universe and pass on this information to the consciouness of the physical being.

aren't there many parallel universes existing with us at this moment?? i believe we get caught up with the physical universe and limit our thinking to what we can see and touch. we are more! we can 'sense and feel'. i can easily accept that this physical universe of ours is but a portion of the UNIVERSE or omniverse that i sense exists.

will you agree that the uni-omni-verse includes our physical universe? it may be time for us to come up with a term that defines the physical universe(s) and another for the totality of all that exists within infinity/eternity?

love and peace,
olde drunk

That's a matter of terminology, the universe as far as we can observe, can be called "observable universe", and we don't need omni/multi verse, the term universe already includes those.

 

[DavidSF]

Who does the will of God, What is the will of God? Jesus knew these answers and God the Father already knows these answers.
If you don't know these answers you walk in fear and darkness.. You walk in sin..

Jesus said "The Father knows the Son and the Son knows the Father" which means simply that the Father knew and could read the knowledge thoughts of Jesus and those thoughts revealed to the Father that Jesus new the form of the Father.
Because it is the Fathers Will that we come to the full knowledge of the Father the Holy Spirit (the light of this world).
The Father is spirit.. Your Life force is spirit.. Your brothers Life force is spirit.. If you hate your brothers spirt you hate Gods Spirit..

The spirit of God turns the Earth that you may have day and night and the seasons..
Jesus walked on water to reveal the living God to you in this way he reveals the Father (He walked with the law of God in his heart and mind for He new and loved his Father) who is the fundamental Holy Spirit POWER of the universe.

God is the fundamental foundation of light itself (GRAVITY energy)..
Come to the full knowledge of that light, and then you will find and come to the full knowledge of your God the Father and your own Spirit.

You were a part of the Spirit of God before you were born, and you will be a part of the Spirit of God Spirit when you say you die (You lived before and you will live after, God willing), and for now while you here on Earth you are the Spirit of God in the flesh, For Jesus told you, is it not written 'You are a Gods'.
Please understand and don't walk lower than the animals.. May God Bless you and forgive your ignorance..

Seek the knowledge of the Spirit, the laws of light / gravity, your God.. This is His Will and all that he will ever ask of you...Love Him and he will reveal and show you all things as Jesus has already told you..

 

[Guybrush Threepwood]

The spirit of God turns the Earth that you may have day and night and the seasons..

yes, but let's not forget that superman could reverse the rotation of the Earth, so I guess the spirit met his match ...

Jesus walked on water to reveal the living God to you in this way he reveals the Father (He walked with the law of God in his heart and mind for He new and loved his Father) who is the fundamental Holy Spirit POWER of the universe.

http://whyfiles.org/shorties/015walk_on_water can walk on water also...

God is the fundamental foundation of light itself (GRAVITY energy)..
Come to the full knowledge of that light, and then you will find and come to the full knowledge of your God the Father and your own Spirit.

Well Einstein would be really glad to hear that the foundation of gravity is light and not the geometry of the space...

I guess you missed the title of the thread, specifically the word proof

 

[olde drunk]

That's a matter of terminology, the universe as far as we can observe, can be called "observable universe", and we don't need omni/multi verse, the term universe already includes those.

i agree. my point is that our physical universe is nestled inside a larger universe. to often when the word universe is used it is taken to mean the physical.

it is also quite possible that our larger unvirse is nestled inside another, etc, etc, ad infinitum.

is the total of all universes, god? feels like it.

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[olde drunk]

i agree that i am god as jesus said. that's why he is/was a wise man. unfortunately, we place a mystical meaning to the phrase and ignore the real meaning. we each control our destiny, we are one with whatever god is.

now all we got to do is be true to ourselves and honor our neighbor as ourself. this done, listen to the inner you and you will find your definition of god. i submit that the definition is uniquely individual and defies a definition to satisfy everyone.

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[DavidSF]

Proof

You want proof...

The definition of space-time, can it be separated from gravity or light? do you know your fourth dimensional motion (velocity) through the heavens? do you know the length of your second? do you truly know the real processes of electromagnetic propagation? much of this is still probably mystical and called phenomena to you.

Why is the kingdom of heaven within you? did you not know that inside the atom is an inverted mirror of what is occurring within the heavens.
Jesus said "all things come to them as parables because their is no root in them"
For this reason you do not know that the square root of the electron compton wavelength is, one over your total combination of galactic velocity vectors.

Einstein also understood that three dimensional geometry could not describe space time, as his theory of relativity predicts.

Atomic mass can modify space time can it not? If it can then space time must be able to modify atomic mass structure. which says that space time is not as empty as you may think. Its full of God...

If mass is convertible to energy then energy is convertible to mass.

Your God is Energy, the very structure of space time which we can modulate and send waves through, all frequencies which travel at a singular speed, for this reason he sees everything.

God is the carrier of all sources of electromagnetic light, he even bought my advice to you.

And you wanted proof,

It is all around you. But this you see, but alas you don't see. God forgive You.

 

[olde drunk]

You want proof...

The definition of space-time, can it be separated from gravity or light? do you know your fourth dimensional motion (velocity) through the heavens? do you know the length of your second? do you truly know the real processes of electromagnetic propagation? much of this is still probably mystical and called phenomena to you.

Why is the kingdom of heaven within you? did you not know that inside the atom is an inverted mirror of what is occurring within the heavens.
Jesus said "all things come to them as parables because their is no root in them"
For this reason you do not know that the square root of the electron compton wavelength is, one over your total combination of galactic velocity vectors.

Einstein also understood that three dimensional geometry could not describe space time, as his theory of relativity predicts.

Atomic mass can modify space time can it not? If it can then space time must be able to modify atomic mass structure. which says that space time is not as empty as you may think. Its full of God...

If mass is convertible to energy then energy is convertible to mass.

Your God is Energy, the very structure of space time which we can modulate and send waves through, all frequencies which travel at a singular speed, for this reason he sees everything.

God is the carrier of all sources of electromagnetic light, he even bought my advice to you.

And you wanted proof,

It is all around you. But this you see, but alas you don't see. God forgive You.

i do NOT need god's forgiveness. i do gods work, my way. my god doen't require that i know the definition of 'mass' or go to mass. he doesn't care if i ignore or worship. my god only expects that i be me and respect all of creation. AND, i don't need to tithe.

my god is energy! amen.

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[Tom McCurdy]

You want proof...

The definition of space-time, can it be separated from gravity or light? do you know your fourth dimensional motion (velocity) through the heavens? do you know the length of your second? do you truly know the real processes of electromagnetic propagation? much of this is still probably mystical and called phenomena to you.

Why is the kingdom of heaven within you? did you not know that inside the atom is an inverted mirror of what is occurring within the heavens.
Jesus said "all things come to them as parables because their is no root in them"
For this reason you do not know that the square root of the electron compton wavelength is, one over your total combination of galactic velocity vectors.

Einstein also understood that three dimensional geometry could not describe space time, as his theory of relativity predicts.

Atomic mass can modify space time can it not? If it can then space time must be able to modify atomic mass structure. which says that space time is not as empty as you may think. Its full of God...

If mass is convertible to energy then energy is convertible to mass.

Your God is Energy, the very structure of space time which we can modulate and send waves through, all frequencies which travel at a singular speed, for this reason he sees everything.

God is the carrier of all sources of electromagnetic light, he even bought my advice to you.

And you wanted proof,

It is all around you. But this you see, but alas you don't see. God forgive You.

hmm I am still missing the proof part

And quit trying to post with the enlighted theme... it makes you seem like you are superior to us, pure in some fashion... I am sure god wouldn't want this now.

Hmm I didin't realize time was heaven... as I travel through the 4th dimension... however this does bring up something funny. The faster i move the more I am removed from heaven. Lol

 

[Dooga Blackrazor]

Religion topics are always a good time. I guess I'll join in on this one. :) I consider myself Agnostic because I'm in the middle of the situation. But if God turns out to exist I believe it might be possible to achieve proof. So I'm not sure what my grammatical religion would be called.

I can see the perspective of an Atheist well enough. Its like if someone said. There are 23 more planets in the Solar System but they have no proof. However since I personally can't disprove that I don't completely exclude the possibility.

No offense to Christians, but I find Christianity somewhat ironic. The way the beliefs are organized its almost like an interesting fairy tale. I'm sure some people read it as fiction. Some Christian beliefs aren't logical either.

I believe God would be much wiser than portrayed and would've at least explained his reasoning in any book provided to earth. With Christianity the Bible just dismisses something with no logic behind the dismissal. Therefore, I don't believe in the Christian God. Its possible, but I think its quite unlikely.

I'm fairly flexible when it comes to possibilities. I don't think illogical religious beliefs should be considered in government. Thou shall not do something. Why not? I'm disgusted when illogically backed up religious statements are used in government.

I'm not sure what my religion is but to believe in God I think I'd have to see him personally and have a lengthy discussion with him. Depending on how convincing he was I might talk longer or dismiss his statement.

I look at more things from an Atheist standpoint most of the time. It allows me to more logically look at situations and let's me take advantage of life to the fullest without basing my decisions on a possible afterlife.

However when I'm having a bad time I might pray. Prayer helps when nobody else can understand or is around. I think I've done this maybe 3 times since I shifted from parentally influenced Catholic beliefs. Whether or not God is up there Prayer and belief helps people when nothing else can. This is perhaps a reason why people cling so tightly to their religious beliefs. If they do not have them, they have to come up with their own morals. On top of that, they may be alone or fear death more. Many other factors could influence the entire subject.

I hope I didn't offend people. It looks from above that the conversation is fairly heated. If anyone knows what religion I would be considered I'd love to know. ~Thanks.

 

[jdavel]

"What would be proof that God exists?"

I know of at least three proofs that would work for me.

1) If everyone else believed it, I'd believe it.

2) If everyone who didn't believe it got burned at the stake, I'd believe it.

3) In a more practical vain, this would also work for me:

I examine a stack of 52 cards to ensure that it's a regulation deck. I immediately shuffle the deck to my satisfaction. I immediately deal ten poker hands from the top of this shuffled, regulation deck, and they all have four of a kind. At that point, I would believe in god!

 

[jradoff]

I think there's a general misunderstanding with regards to science. Scientists don't "believe" things, nor do they rely on scientific literature in the same sense as theists utilize scripture. Scientists weigh evidence and develop theories. The value of a theory is its ability to make experimentally-verifiable predictions.

Thus, when addressing any particular religion, one might ask: what is the strength of the evidence? What predictions does it make, and how can we test them?

I recommend the following book:

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/flex-sign-in/ref=cm_rate_rev_pagepos3/104-1549182-3438313#rated-review&tag=pfamazon01-20

 

[jradoff]

Hmm, the link I posted above didn't take for some reason. The book is the DEMON-HAUNTED WORLD, by Carl Sagan. It is pretty easy to find on Amazon, and discusses how many people come to certain beliefs (not simply religion, but also such things as UFOs, alien abductions, psychic powers, etc.) and how to think logically about things.

 

[DavidSF]

Tom MucCurdy seems to think I am trying to be a little superior.. This is not so.. To learn from the Spirit of God you must first learn to become humble, only then can you listen to God to learn and become wise..
(A wise man listens that he may become a little wiser).

If a man has wisdom, others without that wisdom thinks he may be inferior and immediately may accuse the other of trying to be superior.

Jesus said "knowledge is justified by its children".

I say "we are what we eat and drink"..

In a physics forum can I ask if anyone can answer me this - what is the Alpha? and what is the omega? for God says "I am the apha and the omega".

Also can somebody tell me, what velocity must I obtain to be waitless at the surface of the earth? (Think very carefully).

And for proof let me say this.

The Son of Man stands with the scientific institutions on the one hand and the religious institutions on the other hand and could very easily be saying "Come listen to me for I am the light of this world, for you both seek the ultimate knowledge of God, understand that their is only one truth and that truth encompasses all, for you both seek that very same truth".

I hope that you will eat a little truth every day, (the bread from heaven) that it may nourish you and then one day you will understand.

And to jdavel , remember what Jesus said "Wide is the road to perdition and many go in by it, but narrow is the path and few find it". Suggest you look beyond the cards.

God forgives you, so you also learn to forgive.

Who of you has a child who asks what he can do for his Father, but only children who are always asking the Father to do things for them.

Somebody once said to me "What does God want from me?". I said "He wants the one thing that you will never give to Him, Your time, For he has time for you, but you have no time for Him".

 

[Janitor]

the square root of the electron compton wavelength is, one over your total combination of galactic velocity vectors- David

David, due especially to the bit I just quoted, I suspect you are having fun pulling our legs. But if by chance you are serious, how about elaborating on that for us? Maybe even plug in some numbers, if you would be so kind. And who was the author of the book or article or tract from which you got that?

 

[DavidSF]

Dear janitor,
That information is not in the current science books, and I discoved the information after reading the words of Christ "The kingdom of heaven is within you".

This prompted me to seek out why he had said this I and discovered much much more than this about atomic physics.

At this time the physicists and institutions look at the atom with a very narrow minded viewpoint. They put the atom within a small box and ignore anything outside of that box, ignoring the fact that the tiny atom is traveling at over 2.3 million kilometres per hour through space time for a reason.

If you break this speed down to metres per second to conform with the standard SI metre per second format, then consider and relate this value to our atronomical galactic spin and galactic velocity conditions, you will note that you are almost there.

If I give you the formulae I give the world the formulae, and the scripture advises me not to caste my pearls before the swine lest they trample you underfoot.

I have given you more than enough information, Seek and ye shall find for nothing is hidden that will not come to light..

You are and will be dealing with the core of relativity, in that the time needed to cover 1 metre wavelength at galactic speeds is incredibly small.

No I am not, nor will at anytime, pull anybodies leg.

I ask you this, If you had the knowledge of God. Would you share it indescriminately, or be very cautious as to who it is given to.

Believe that it is there and it will be according to your belief, and be patient, It is not easy to shake off some of the miss-leeding information which can be found in the present day institutions.

DavidSF

 

[Janitor]

Brother David,

I had a suspicion that the knowledge of galactic vectors might be straight from God’s mouth to your ear. I agree that it is a dangerous gift to be in touch personally with He Who Is Above All Things. I understand completely.

 

[Nicomachus]

Dear janitor,
That information is not in the current science books, and I discoved the information after reading the words of Christ "The kingdom of heaven is within you".

This prompted me to seek out why he had said this I and discovered much much more than this about atomic physics.

At this time the physicists and institutions look at the atom with a very narrow minded viewpoint. They put the atom within a small box and ignore anything outside of that box, ignoring the fact that the tiny atom is traveling at over 2.3 million kilometres per hour through space time for a reason.

If you break this speed down to metres per second to conform with the standard SI metre per second format, then consider and relate this value to our atronomical galactic spin and galactic velocity conditions, you will note that you are almost there.

If I give you the formulae I give the world the formulae, and the scripture advises me not to caste my pearls before the swine lest they trample you underfoot.

I have given you more than enough information, Seek and ye shall find for nothing is hidden that will not come to light..

You are and will be dealing with the core of relativity, in that the time needed to cover 1 metre wavelength at galactic speeds is incredibly small.

No I am not, nor will at anytime, pull anybodies leg.

I ask you this, If you had the knowledge of God. Would you share it indescriminately, or be very cautious as to who it is given to.

Believe that it is there and it will be according to your belief, and be patient, It is not easy to shake off some of the miss-leeding information which can be found in the present day institutions.

DavidSF

blah blah blah. Whatever, David Koresh. All you have are a bunch naked assertions and what psychologists refer to as "delusions of grandeur."

 

[DavidSF]

Dooga Blackrazor,
You are a believer, only believers pray, even the so called non believers, or athiests will usually call out "My God" in a time of crisis, because it is inbuilt into them from the beginning, For God created heaven and Earth and everything within or on it.
What man teaches is unbelievable, what God teaches is Good and very believable, if in doubt just ask God.

Jesus told you how to pray, so analyse the words of the Lords Prayer. We are asking for his knowledge daily

 

[selfAdjoint]

Unbelievers call out "My God" not because it is hardwired into them but because they have been socialized into a culture where that is an accepted thing to shout in certain circumstances.

 

[Nicomachus]

Dooga Blackrazor,
You are a believer, only believers pray, even the so called non believers, or athiests will usually call out "My God" in a time of crisis, because it is inbuilt into them from the beginning, For God created heaven and Earth and everything within or on it.
What man teaches is unbelievable, what God teaches is Good and very believable, if in doubt just ask God.

Jesus told you how to pray, so analyse the words of the Lords Prayer. We are asking for his knowledge daily

Are you going to do anything but proselytize like a dogmatic cultist? The reason people cry out "my God" is a result of cultural programming. You don't see many Hindu's crying "my God" and I would be willing to claim the Rapa Nui and various other cultures not exposed to Judeo-Christian dogma didn't either. This is a ridiculous and is at best sophistry. Circulus in Demonstrando.
*Nico

 

[DavidSF]

Dear janitor or is it Jan,
The galactic velocity vectors have been measured and can be obtained from the internet, the main velocity component is 600km/sec and is also written in the scripture. Read about Noah's ark, and note Noah's age..

Then imagine that we are discussing the motion of the Earth through the living water the arc the Earth cuts as it orbits the sun.

Built into the scripture are all the numbers to confirm the truth, and some which they haven't discovered yet.

Have a feast..
David

 

[DavidSF]

Whatever God you believe in you will utimately call out his name, nomatter what your culture or belief, if you don't say it you will think it...believe me Satan is a liar, when we open our mouth we reveal our Father who is within us.. Some have taken to typing..

In a physics forum can I ask if anyone can answer me this - what is the Alpha? and what is the omega? for God says "I am the apha and the omega".

Also can somebody tell me, what velocity must I obtain to be weightless at the surface of the earth? (Think very carefully).

 

[Nicomachus]

Whatever God you believe in you will utimately call out his name, nomatter what your culture or belief, if you don't say it you will think it...believe me Satan is a liar, when we open our mouth we reveal our Father who is within us.. Some have taken to typing..

In a physics forum can I ask if anyone can answer me this - what is the Alpha? and what is the omega? for God says "I am the apha and the omega".

Also can somebody tell me, what velocity must I obtain to be weightless at the surface of the earth? (Think very carefully).

blah blah blah. That is a naked assertion, you have no evidence. Furthermore, it is irrelavent, all you have presented is that if someone believes in a theistic entity then one will, although this does not follow, call out the word associated with the theistic entity one believes in. Alright, so is every theistic entity that has a word associated with it which believers call out, real?

As far as your "alpha and omega," what was the point of this proselytizing nonsense? Yes we all know what that means, you are just crowing up a bunch of phrases without bringing forth any substance. You are still continuing your Circulus in Demonstrando and providing nothing but red herrings. Are you intellectually capable of presenting valid argument and not these absurdities you have brought thus far? Stop being a sophist and be the intellectual you are pretending to be.
*Nico

 

[Evo]

even the so called non believers, or athiests will usually call out "My God" in a time of crisis,

or fun, or great sex.

 

[DavidSF]

Your mind is not not focused on the kingdom of the heavens, because of this you cannot understand where I come from.

This is a physics forum. I had hoped for an open minded hearing to enable the scientific knowledge of God to be openly discussed.

Logic depicts that if God created heaven and earth, He would know the laws of how it all works, and then would he not want to tell his children how His laws of the universe the laws of creation work.

Man is very good at tearing matter of apart but has not learned how to put it back together.

Man is but just a destructive child at this time, and God wishes to teach and show you the truth, but who is listening. understanding is not mans strongest point.

God is love, you are a product of love, the next time you make love.. thank God.. but please give some love back to God, no matter how little you give, for he will multiply it a thousand times back to you.

 

[Evo]

Your mind is not not focused on the kingdom of the heavens, because of this you cannot understand where I come from.

Very true.

This is a physics forum. I had hoped for an open minded hearing to enable the scientific knowledge of God to be openly discussed.

I am not aware of any scientific knowledge of god.

Logic depicts that if God created heaven and earth, He would he know the laws of how it all works, and then would he not want to tell his children how His laws of the universe the laws of creation work.

Sure, why not? When is he going to share this?

Man is very good at tearing matter of apart but has not learned how to put it back together.

Taking something apart is good for understanding how it works.

Man is but just a destructive child at this time, and God wishes to teach and show you the truth, but who is listening. understanding is not mans strongest point.

So, if there is a god and he knows the answers, I would say that it is time for him to share. I think that there are many here ready to understand.

God is love, you are a product of love, the next time you make love.. thank God.. but please give some love back to God, no matter who little you give, for he will multiply it a thousand times back to you.

I realized when I was eight years old that the god described in the christian bible was a manifestation of men's ideas. The god described in the bible is a vicious, jealous, angry, vindictive "god" that had all the shortcomings of mortal men, and also the values of the period in time in which it was written. Obviously it is a tale borne of man.

I do not wish to tear you from your beliefs. I think religion is a necessary crutch for many people.

 

[russ_watters]

I realized when I was eight years old that the god described in the christian bible was a manifestation of men's ideas.

Minor sidebar here. Though your sentiment is nice to see, why is it (my perception) that women tend to be more religious than men, at least in Christianity? Do you think the same as your female friends - is it just your scientific mindset that makes you different (if that's your perception)?

For the record, I'm a Christian despite the clear and obvious flaws in the Bible. I should start my own sect (cult?)...

 

[russ_watters]

In a physics forum can I ask if anyone can answer me this - what is the Alpha? and what is the omega? for God says "I am the apha and the omega".

They are letters in a dead alphabet.

 

[Evo]

Minor sidebar here. Though your sentiment is nice to see, why is it (my perception) that women tend to be more religious than men, at least in Christianity? Do you think the same as your female friends - is it just your scientific mindset that makes you different (if that's your perception)?

No, I have found that I am pretty much alone in my beliefs. I'm in an odd (or maybe not so odd) position where I don't see any proof of a god, well, not a nice god.

When I was very little I thought of god as being kind, loving and good. Then I was taught how he was depicted in the bible. Not nice. Then I looked around at the atrocities happening every day. No "god" that was good would allow this. I knew all the arguments as to why "god" allowed these things to happen and decided it wasn't realistic. As much as I wished there was a "god" that would look out for me, I realized there wasn't.

For the record, I'm a Christian despite the clear and obvious flaws in the Bible. I should start my own sect (cult?)...

If you come up with a convincing story, I might join.

 

[DavidSF]

Alpa = (C squared) / radius (r) = Angular velocity of the speed of light
Omega = C / r = frequency R represents lambda

1/omega = time

There is nothing dead about God..

But the light of God you do not walk in..

I have not found any flaws in my Bible but many flaws in mans interpretation of the Bible.

My God is the light of this world, Jesus told you plainly "I am the light" or did you not understand what He was saying.

He also told you only the "Son knows the Father and whom the Son is willing to reveal Him"

One day in the future you will know that even though you think you do not need God, He will still be there for you.

 

[Nicomachus]

Your mind is not not focused on the kingdom of the heavens, because of this you cannot understand where I come from.

This is a physics forum. I had hoped for an open minded hearing to enable the scientific knowledge of God to be openly discussed.

Logic depicts that if God created heaven and earth, He would know the laws of how it all works, and then would he not want to tell his children how His laws of the universe the laws of creation work.

Man is very good at tearing matter of apart but has not learned how to put it back together.

Man is but just a destructive child at this time, and God wishes to teach and show you the truth, but who is listening. understanding is not mans strongest point.

God is love, you are a product of love, the next time you make love.. thank God.. but please give some love back to God, no matter how little you give, for he will multiply it a thousand times back to you.

"Your mind is not not focused on the kingdom of the heavens, because of this you cannot understand where I come from."

Alright David then present a case. I am well versed in many religions and especially your Christianity, so let's have it. But no, you just want to proselytize under the guise of scientific inquiry.

"This is a physics forum. I had hoped for an open minded hearing to enable the scientific knowledge of God to be openly discussed."

Well, let me be the first to say that I will have a rational discourse with you about this; I have already begun, when do you plan to start? You seem not to want us to be open-minded but gullible.


As for this statement:

"Logic depicts that if God created heaven and earth, He would know the laws of how it all works, and then would he not want to tell his children how His laws of the universe the laws of creation work."

Circulus in Demonstrando. Are you familiar with this fallacy? You are simply assuming your conclusions. This is your assertion: "God exists because he would want to tell his children about the 'laws' he created for the universe, therefore God exists." Do you have the intellectual honesty to face this problem? As well, you are also wrong again, it does not logically follow that if one creates something one would know entirely how that thing works. You may infer that but logically that conclusion is not based on any deduction. Anyway, I shouldn't have analyzed because you are being circular.

"Man is very good at tearing matter of apart but has not learned how to put it back together."

Red herring. Bad poetry.

"Man is but just a destructive child at this time, and God wishes to teach and show you the truth, but who is listening. understanding is not mans strongest point."

Assuming your conclusions. Red herring. Bad poetry. As well, a psychologist would call this a "projection."

"God is love, you are a product of love, the next time you make love.. thank God.. but please give some love back to God, no matter how little you give, for he will multiply it a thousand times back to you."

I would call this a red-herring but that doesn't do this justice. This is not a discourse; this is you preaching. Look, I know all about your religion and I know all of your arguments so why don't you spare us the proselytizing and start presenting the arguments so I can begin refuting them. Your red herrings and sophistry, with respect to the physics quiz, is curious at best.

 

[Nicomachus]

Minor sidebar here. Though your sentiment is nice to see, why is it (my perception) that women tend to be more religious than men, at least in Christianity? Do you think the same as your female friends - is it just your scientific mindset that makes you different (if that's your perception)?

For the record, I'm a Christian despite the clear and obvious flaws in the Bible. I should start my own sect (cult?)...

You know, and this is my observation, I tend to think this is a myth. I would say women on the whole are not as religious as men, in actuality, but play that role in public. Men tend to be far more dogmatic, from my experience anyway and I have much experience in this matter. Oh and russ, Greek isn't a dead language =).
*Nico

 

[Nicomachus]

Alpa = (C squared) / radius (r) = Angular velocity of the speed of light
Omega = C / r = frequency R represents lambda

1/omega = time

There is nothing dead about God..

But the light of God you do not walk in..

I have not found any flaws in my Bible but many flaws in mans interpretation of the Bible.

My God is the light of this world, Jesus told you plainly "I am the light" or did you not understand what He was saying.

He also told you only the "Son knows the Father and whom the Son is willing to reveal Him"

One day in the future you will know that even though you think you do not need God, He will still be there for you.

Pi = the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. Blah blah blah. What is your point? Oh you are making a neat allusion to your twisted interpretation of the Bible to fit some model you have created using the "Alpha and Omega" phrase. This reminds me of the legendary, but untrue, story of Euler's mathematical proof of God to Diderot; you's is even more ridiculous than the one attributed to Euler. You don't even have a premise and yet you have come to a conclusion based on these statements ... I have seen first year logic students do better than this.

On the whole you are being a sophist. You have twisted and wielded Revelations 1.8 to fit this model, your interpretation. Have you forgotten 2 Peter 1.20 ? Please don't tell me this is the best you've got.
*Nico

 

[DavidSF]

Dear Nick,
I almost feel sorry for you, Your lack of insight is your weakness. many things come as parrables to you, I am not a poet, but the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven will never be yours unless you cease to be judge and jury, this you were told and you never listened then, or either you have a very bad memory.

I will not toil with argument for the sake of argument, for this seems to be your delight. Your mind is closed. You do not seem to comprehend the beauty of the knowledge of life, of light, of God.. maybe you are still young and need to mature, I do not know, but God knows.

The knowledge of God (She) is your life, Seek her, Love her, and when you find Her and love Her then you will understand..

Only you stop yourself from understanding.
Read the parrables, it will help you see yourself.

David

 

[Nicomachus]

Dear Nick,
I almost feel sorry for you, Your lack of insight is your weakness. many things come as parrables to you, I am not a poet, but the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven will never be yours unless you cease to be judge and jury, this you were told and you never listened then, or either you have a very bad memory.

I will not toil with argument for the sake of argument, for this seems to be your delight. Your mind is closed. You do not seem to comprehend the beauty of the knowledge of life, of light, of God.. maybe you are still young and need to mature, I do not know, but God knows.

The knowledge of God (She) is your life, Seek her, Love her, and when you find Her and love Her then you will understand..

Only you stop yourself from understanding.
Read the parrables, it will help you see yourself.

David

My name is Nicomachus and don't feel sorry for me, that is just another projection of yours and example of your own delusions of grandeur.

"many things come as parrables to you, I am not a poet, but the mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven will never be yours unless you cease to be judge and jury, this you were told and you never listened then, or either you have a very bad memory."

Your ad hominem with respect to my memory is duly unnecessary. Don't be so presumptuous and self-righteous as to think because I know you are providing no arguments that I am some how mentally diminished. Why do you continue this Circulus in Demonstrando? Honestly, I don't care if you are a poet or a garbage-collector, you cannot prove the existence of "the Kingdom of Heaven" by asserting "the Kingdom of Heaven exists." You explicitly suggesting that I must relinguish all rational thought in order to accept your nonsense, such is immoral.

"I will not toil with argument for the sake of argument, for this seems to be your delight. Your mind is closed. You do not seem to comprehend the beauty of the knowledge of life, of light, of God.. maybe you are still young and need to mature, I do not know, but God knows."

No, you just have no intellectual honesty. You make these naked assertions and then cry foul when I criticize them. You were the one bemoaning the lack of intellectual discussion and crowing of your knowledge of intellectual matters but yet you refuse to engage in intellectual discourse. My mind is not closed, I am simply rational, unlike this ad hominem and irrelavent display you have made. It is not fruitful to assert that because I do not accept your position because I am young, which is further presumpuous, or that I am somehow mentally diminished. When you assert this business of "You do not seem to comprehend the beauty of knowledge..." all you are doing is presenting vacuous statements. You attempt to make an emotional plea but that will not work in discourse.

" The knowledge of God (She) is your life, Seek her, Love her, and when you find Her and love Her then you will understand.."

Simply because you have changed the gender of the pronoun you use does not mean I will accept your unjustified positions. Again, this is preaching session, stop proselytizing and be the intellectual you were purporting yourself to be.

"Only you stop yourself from understanding.
Read the parrables, it will help you see yourself."

Blah blah blah. The word is "parables." I have read the Bible and I would claim I am more versed in it than you, I have certainly demonstrated that I have greater understanding of it than you. You did not respond; how do you justify your defiance of 2 Peter 1.20. I think I may speak for everyone when I say that no one cares for your preaching. You entered this thread purporting evidence and arguments, thus far you have presented nothing but naked assertions, fallacies, red herrings, bad poetry, and ad hominems in way of insinuating diminished mental capacity of those who do not fall for your sophistry.
*Nico

 

[DavidSF]

2 Peter 1:20 (knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation),

Why do ask me about this scripture, I do not interpret the scripture but read what is written there in very very plain English, If you do not believe what is written then that is your problem..
I do not understand your anger toward me, is this because I understand a little about time, because Jesus warned me when he said "When your time comes, remember they hated me first"..
All I have received from you is aggressive anger statements, and a stuck record which keeps saying "Red herring Red herring Red herring", maybe I am a fisherman?


Go to page 5 and re-read what I have said previously, maybe you will learn something more.. You judge what yourself you do not understand,

Revelation 23
9. Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife.''
10. And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

As I said before The knowledge of God (She) is your life, Seek her, Love her, and when you find Her and love Her then you will understand..

Here is some proverbs from Proverbs 4

6. Do not forsake her, and she will preserve you; love her, and she will keep you.
7. Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom. And in all your getting, get understanding.
8. Exalt her, and she will promote you; she will bring you honor, when you embrace her.
9. She will place on your head an ornament of grace; a crown of glory she will deliver to you.''

She is the knowledge of God..

 

[DavidSF]

Proverbs 2
4. If you seek her as silver, and search for her as for hidden treasures;
5. then you will understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.

What more can I say

 

[Nicomachus]

2 Peter 1:20 (knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation),

Why do ask me about this scripture, I do not interpret the scripture but read what is written there in very very plain English, If you do not believe what is written then that is your problem..
I do not understand your anger toward me, is this because I understand a little about time, because Jesus warned me when he said "When your time comes, remember they hated me first"..
All I have received from you is aggressive anger statements, and a stuck record which keeps saying "Red herring Red herring Red herring", maybe I am a fisherman?


Go to page 5 and re-read what I have said previously, maybe you will learn something more.. You judge what yourself you do not understand,

Revelation 23
9. Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife.''
10. And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

As I said before The knowledge of God (She) is your life, Seek her, Love her, and when you find Her and love Her then you will understand..

Here is some proverbs from Proverbs 4

6. Do not forsake her, and she will preserve you; love her, and she will keep you.
7. Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom. And in all your getting, get understanding.
8. Exalt her, and she will promote you; she will bring you honor, when you embrace her.
9. She will place on your head an ornament of grace; a crown of glory she will deliver to you.''

She is the knowledge of God..

"2 Peter 1:20 (knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation),

Why do ask me about this scripture, I do not interpret the scripture but read what is written there in very very plain English, If you do not believe what is written then that is your problem.."

Because you are twisting verses to fit your, albeit pointless, model. I realize that you are reading the verses but you are also intrepreting it at will.

"I do not understand your anger toward me, is this because I understand a little about time, because Jesus warned me when he said "When your time comes, remember they hated me first".."

I don't have anger toward you; you are just passive aggressively asserting your unjustified position, though mostly vague and vacuous, as some absolute that only an idiot would not accept. Your position and arguments have no merit.

"All I have received from you is aggressive anger statements, and a stuck record which keeps saying "Red herring Red herring Red herring", maybe I am a fisherman?"

Well possibly if you were educated you would realize why I keep calling you on red-herrings. That has been your tactic all along and the more you continue this strategy the more I will point it out.

I read your magical page 5 and it contained nothing but naked assertions, unjustified conclusions, and circulus in demonstrando, among other things. You seem to suggest that a proper deductive argument takes whatever you want to be true and makes it true.

"You judge what yourself you do not understand,

Revelation 23
9. Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife.''
10. And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,"

Do not be so presumptuous as to assume what I do not understand. I understand your religion and its text very well. It is you who are demonstrating and unashamed ignonrance of it. Have you no intellectual honesty, sir? This verse you have presented is simply part and parcel of your "I cannot defend criticism but I can preach as if I am a broken record" formula.

"As I said before The knowledge of God (She) is your life, Seek her, Love her, and when you find Her and love Her then you will understand.."

Circulus in ... Do I really have to write it out again? Let me ask you this: Do you know what it means to assume your conclusions and if so do you realize the problem with that? This is very basic elementary stuff for me, why are you having such a hard time with it? Bring something more challenging you are just sounding like any run of the mill dogmatic theist.
*Nico

 

[Nicomachus]

Proverbs 2
4. If you seek her as silver, and search for her as for hidden treasures;
5. then you will understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.

What more can I say

I don't know. You haven't begun to say anything.
*Nico

-- Also, if you would like I will make a rigorous examination of your "page 5" statements and show them to be what I said previously and will demonstrate how you are blatantly defying 2 Peter 1.20, which is to say nothing of the lack of merit of your crackpot interpretations.

 

[DavidSF]

Mathew 10
25. "It is enough for a disciple that he be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household!
26. "Therefore do not fear them. For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, and hidden that will not be known.


The knowledge of God is for those who love God and genuinely seek it, You do not know God nor his form.

For this reason you do not understand me. If you loved God you would seek his knowledge and I would know you, and you would know me.

But I do not know you, and because you do not know me you will remain
un-enlightened so to speak.

I will leave you with the following thoughts for the day.

Mathew 7
5. "Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye.
6. "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
7. "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
8. "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

God Bless you all
Hopefully somebody heard the truth about God

Dear janitor,
the scripture is built on a process called witnessing, this you experienced and you will take on board the information I gave you.
For this reason you now know where to look, and it will profit you.
David.

 

[olde drunk]

first off, how does any of this nonsense prove the existence of god?? and, who said god created the earth, heaven and hell??

i would prefer to accept the thesis that there ain't no heaven or hell and that the Earth is an energy projection available to us as a playground to hone our skills for manipulating our energy.

i submit, picture your most blessed image of heaven; now, how long before you are bored?? hell fails the same logic test. what purpose would it serve (for anyone or any god) to have a 'soul' spend eternity in a hell.

within creation we go to many, many worlds to expand our consciousness and that of the universe. these are playgrounds where we play games, respectfully. i hate to say it, but as a fallen (very faithful) christian, i have found that most continue to believe because they either do not want to think for themselves or they have bought the idea that they will be punished if they do.

i assure you, being a heretic is very safe! i have been one for neigh on 35 years and my life has the same twists and turns as believers. i do like, however, the insight gained by seeing how i made things happen and my evolution into a loving, peaceful being.

i have said it before, the bible has been corrupted by well intentioned translators and interpreters. a nice historical book that can not be trusted as a handbook for life.

you can have my pearls of wisdom because i do not consider ANY of creation to be 'swine'. trust me, there are no greater or lesser souls in the universe; only explorers. honestly, i prefer to be a happy go lucky seeker of experience.

let the games begin! we don't need no stinkin religion!

love&peace,
olde drunk